Matt Lyon
Forum Replies Created
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[Rafael Amador] “This worked well for Leopard where Gamma was 1.8, but cause an issue on SL.
On SL FC still apply that multiplier, so the Gamma we are getting in FC Canvas may be some 2.2 x 1.22 = 2.688
The same happens in QT with SL: if you check “FC Color..” the Gamma (already 2.2) jumps.
This needs to be fixed.”Thanks Rafael, that has been my experience to with FCP 6 and SL. I haven’t switched to FCP 7 yet, but I always figured that it would be using the same display engine.
So the answer with FCP 7 and SL to set your screen to 1.8 gamma, so the canvas appears at approximately 2.2? This is my habit with FCP 6.
Lately, I’ve been using a hardware calibrator to make a gamma 1.8 and gamma 2.2 display profile on all my machines, so I can toggle between the two.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Guillaue Chadaillac] “Chrome is clearly a big looser in my test. And I read somewhere that Chrome does not use the calibration that I did on my screen in order to display videos and pictures.”
I don’t know much about what Chrome does under the hood, but the issue isn’t only your display profile, it is also the fact that h264 movies can carry a color profile inside their metadata. This profile is used by the computer’s display engine to interpret how to display the pixels in the movie. So there are many layers of interactions between applications, operating systems and monitors. And every developer seems to have a different idea about what “best practices” are.
In my tests, I tried direct exports using QT conversion out of FCP and self contained movies via compressor. Both yielded slightly different results.
You might also find it more helpful to use a test chart, rather then images from your camera:
https://www.belle-nuit.com/testchart.html
The nice thing about this chart is it tells you what the RGB values for each chip should be. So you can use the “DigitalColor Meter” app in your utilities folder to really quantify how pixels are changing value through your processing and display chain.
Since H264 came out, I have switched to it and haven’t looked back. There are older codecs that don’t allow for embedded color profiles. They /might/ give more consistent results, but at the expense of file size and/or image quality. The quicktime flavor or “mpeg 4 video” might be worth trying. Let us know if you have any luck!
And I have to agree with everyone: using a pro broadcast monitor with proper i/o hardware, calibrated to rec709 specs is the ONLY way to view your work in a standardized, repeatable, internationally consistent viewing environment. I don’t do much web video these days, but in the past my approach would be to grade for the pro monitor, then apply a secondary “look” during the quicktime export to match the output as closely as possible. But that doesn’t solve the issue of different players and browers doing different things with your colors.
Maybe a disclaimer on your web page: “best viewed in [insert browser of choice here]” 🙂
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hi Guillaue,
I too did a series of tests like yours … and after a few weeks I gave up looking for a magic bullet. It’ll drive you mad 🙂
For one thing, you haven’t even compared browers on Windows and Linux, or tried different version of OS X, and different player apps (VLC, etx). Your color deviations will get even worse, believe me!
This is an interesting read on display calibration and FCP:
https://support.apple.com/kb/HT2912
Although old, this article suggests using a display gamma 1.8 w/ FCP. I’ve confirmed this is true in FCP v6. I’m not sure if it still applies in FCP 7.
The Apple H264 encoder seems to have a known problem with “lifted” blacks. The x264 plugin seems to solve this, but it still doesn’t guarantee color consistency across browsers or players.
One thing to keep in mind when doing web quicktimes: you are taking Y’CrCb captured video and making it display on an RGB 8 bit display (computer monitor). There is always going to be some act of interpretation going on! Both have different white and black coding levels, gamma handling and color gamut.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Simon Li] “When using the drop down menu, I can select the option but nothing happens. Is there supposed to be a check or tick once the action has happened?
When using the right click option, the make clips independent is greyed out.”
Hi Simon, if you are right clicking on the clip in the timeline and the “make independent” option is greyed out, then it means the clips are already independent.
I’m not sure why it doesn’t work. This trick has worked for me in the past, but under somewhat different circumstances.
You could try copying the contents of the timeline into a new, empty timeline in a new project. Then close your projects, relaunch FCP, open the new project and see if Media Manager works any better. It’s probably a bit of a long shot, but worth trying…
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Interesting thread! Sorry to jump in late here…
Ariane, I’m not a developer, but I asked the programmer in our studio what he uses for our custom tools and it looks like the same formula you employ in your example.
We also bypass the whole quicktime/java thing, like Andreas mentioned. Our method is XML + python + FFMPEG.
What is the sync issue you alluded to in an earlier post? Is it anything like what I cover in my tutorial:
https://library.creativecow.net/lyon_matt/fixing-fcp-assets/1
Cheers,
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hey Simon,
You could try selecting all the clips in your timeline, then right click>make independent. Then try media manager again.
Hope this helps,Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hey Matt,
If you select a clip (or clips) in your timeline, and hit “command-9,” you can change the field dominance setting in the item properties window.
The change probably won’t take affect right away. I usually hit “control-b” twice to toggle the visibility of the clip and force FCP to “see” the new setting.
I haven’t found a way to do this as a batch for a large group of clips. (If someone has, I’m all ears!) But doing them one at a time is at least quicker then replacing everything manually.
You could also try kicking out an xml and doing a “search and replace” on the relevant clip property. Might be worth a shot…
Hope this helps,
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Adam Claude Jones] “Wish I could automate that somehow. Actually, I wish I was back editing video. 🙂
Much simpler.”Ha ha, I hear you 🙂 I get where you are coming from in wanting to automate the process (which I’m all for, when appropriate). But bear in mind your job here is NOT to make things simple for editorial. It is to makes things as clear as possibly for the VFX people, so they don’t waste any resources. You need to be crazy meticulous and totally detail oriented.
Prepping a show for handoff to VFX can take hours or DAYS, depending on the complexity of the work and the number of VFX shots.
[Adam Claude Jones] “Also, when sending the DPX counterparts to VFX, I would either have to tell them what frames I need (by notes) or go through the trouble of separating those frames and sending only them.”
Yes to both! You should be making detailed spreadsheets, that note every VFX shots, organized by reel, with timeline In/Out, source media In/Out, source media name, source media reel, director’s notes, and any other relevant info. (This is typically the assistant editor’s job — actually, everything I’m describing in this post is).
And again, each VFX shot should be given a unique name (usually via text overlay slug in the timeline). You would create a corresponding folder on your delivery hard-drive, and place JUST the separated frames for that shot in it (with handles, if requested). The way you name these shots would be based on some agreed upon convention, for example, the first VFX shot in the show might be:
ABC_001_0010
then the second shot would be:
ABC_001_0020
Where ‘ABC’ is a short form name of the movie, ‘001’ is the reel number and ‘0010’ is the shot number. These shot numbers have no correlation to the name of your source media. Notice how I’m skipping numbers, in case you miss a shot and need to go back to add one. The “in between” shot would be named “0015.”
You should also be sending reference quicktimes, with burn in timecode and the VFX name overlays, for every reel, so the VFX artists can see their shots in context.
You’ll have to forgive me for probably glossing over large parts of the process, but there is simply too much to write! Your best way to learn more would be by talking in person to other editors who’ve done VFX heavy shows.
[Adam Claude Jones] “The DPX have no real timecode.”
I can’t claim to have a lot of experience using DPX, but my understanding is you can store timecode info in the metadata.
Anyway, this is just one way of doing things, YMMV!
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Like Walter said, shimmering is a fact of life. You can only really judge on a broadcast monitor. Try throwing a “flicker filter” on your graphic and see if it helps. You also need to prep your graphics with an eye for what will work on screen. With lots of trial and error, you learn what is going to work.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Adam Claude Jones] ” Let’s say I use the start till 00:30 and then the end from 02:30. Both point to the same clip and just use different parts of the clip based on how I have it on the timeline. The same would work with the VFX shots which would be exactly the same length and name as the low-rez clips.”
This is true, but typically you would not send the full clip to the VFX artist. So let say you have a five minute clip, and you are only using from 00:00-00:30 and 02:30-03:00. You would only send the two, thirty second chunks to the VFX team (maybe with 12 frame handles). Otherwise, they are comping and rendering 4 minutes of unused footage, which is expensive and a waste of time.
So in this example, you’ve sent two clips to get VFX treatment. When they come back to the edit suite, at least one of them will have a different name, and both will have timecode that starts at 00:00:00:00 (unless you embed TC into the DPX files to match your source clips, which you should be able to do — provided your tools support this).
[Adam Claude Jones] “in a perfect world my edit should be locked/finished.”
Very true indeed! Most shows are scheduled so the creative part of editing is totally finished before VFX begins. Your show should really be 100% LOCKED before you send shots for VFX work. Of course, in the real world, this isn’t always possible.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto