Matthew Sonnenfeld
Forum Replies Created
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Very well said Marco.
Though I still think there’s another variable in this problem…
I’ll probably never be able to find it but I remember reading or watching a video where a Canon rep at NAB 2012 was asked about the BMCC coming out and how it would compete with their cameras and he responded by saying something to the effect of “look at the front of it. That’s our lens mount and our lenses.”
To me, this is really important. Canon is happy to license the mount because the Canon EF mount actually does sell Canon EF lenses. Even Canon views bodies as replaceable/upgradable but lenses are the investment and when you invest in the system that is a far greater opportunity for long term profitability.
Adding to that, you could buy a set of lenses for the BMCC and in two years decide that you want something else. You will look at what you have and having invested in those lenses, there is a much higher chance that you will say “I might as well buy a C_____.”
In contrast, Sony knows that the E mount does not sell lenses. As you said, it sells Metabones adapters. There is no one out there buying E mount lenses for filmmaking. But L glass shoots everything nowadays. What the E mount does for Sony is it sells the FS700 because the consumer says “If I buy this camera, I can put any lens on it.” So Sony profits off of the camera. If the mount were put on a third party camera, Sony loses that camera sale while knowing that they won’t get a lens sale either. There is no win for Sony on either end.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
Well the problem with the E mount is that Sony owns it, unlike Micro Four-Thirds which is a coalition mainly led by Panasonic and Olypmus. For Blackmagic to use the E mount they would have to license it from Sony. The biggest problem that I would foresee about that though is that the Blackmagic Cinema Camera/4K/Pocket Cameras are competitors of Sony products in ways that it is not to Panasonic and certainly Olympus.
Imagine if while Sony was trying to push the F55, a 14 stop, Super35, 4K cinema camera with Global Shutter, that comes in at a starting price of $28,990, they were simultaneously supplying the mount to a 12 stop, Super35, 4K cinema camera also with Global Shutter that cost a mere $4,000.
I suspect that a lot of people would think long and hard about how much they need those 2 stops. That money buys a lot of lights and grip equipment. Certainly enough to light for the difference between those two stops.
As per the issue of the Canon EF mount and being unable to put on an adequate PL adapter…
If you ask me, it looks like the assumption by Blackmagic is that those who are buying the 4K Production Camera probably are more the Canon DSLR crowd who passed on the original BMCC because of the crop factor. These people have Canon lenses already and now they have a sensor that can use them reasonably well, if not properly in the case of EF-S lenses or for the Super35 frame.
Add to that the fact that most new cine lenses that are coming out are available in multiple mounts. For instance the Compact Primes, the Cine Xenars, even Rokinon/Bower/Samyang. And then the Canon CN-E primes are exclusively available in the EF mount. Blackmagic thinks that there is enough cine glass out there to work with the EF mount on the Production Camera and in most cases they’re right. The EF mount also keeps the cost of operation down for the user as the mount is more accessible to less expensive lenses. For the few instances when one may be using Master Primes, Ultra Primes, Cookes, or Summilux-C’s, that means a higher budget, and it also typically means rental. Which means that the renter would have the choice of any number of cinema cameras ranging from RED, to Alexa, to Sony.
The Blackmagic Production Camera in my opinion fills a middle ground that had been left gapingly open. It is a relatively low cost of entry that as a system is flexible ENOUGH to do almost anything you need it to. When the budget calls for more, there are lenses and cameras that offer more.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
The only monitor above that is actually 8bit is the AC7. The others are 6bit panels that use a process called “dithering” to smooth out artifacts such as banding.
That’s not to say that the others are not good monitors. For the sake of reliability, I would stay away from the Ikan monitor. Ikan seems to be doing some interesting things lately by partnering with some companies like Tilta, but the true Ikan branded stuff I have just found to cut too many corners to get the price low and they just seem to have generally silly design flaws.
The Marshall’s are alright but to me they just don’t really DO enough. Even Marshall admitted to having lost to TVLogic.
The TVLogic is an excellent monitor. It is 6bit with dithering but it is not bad. If you need it to be an on camera monitor that will be easy to see and pull focus, this is it. It is not for color management. It’s also on the smaller side.
The AC7 will probably give the best color though like anything else, you need to calibrate it. That being said, the AC7 I’ve heard to be a little plastic-y compared to the TVLogic.
Are you in a rush? SmallHD has the DP7 dropping and while the only one currently available, the OLED-SX, is very expensive, it will be excellent. Coming soon will be the DP7-PRO SB which is positioned to be the best monitor in its class especially considering the expected price tag of $1,599.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
I also use the SanDisk SSDs. They are consistently reliable. The 480 is approved though I have had no issues at all with the 240 which may be more economical if you plan on shooting ProRes. If you want to do raw then the 480 is what you will need.
As per image quality between the MFT or EF, they are, as bodies, exactly the same image. Everything comes down to the the lens at that point. If you already own, or would like to buy, Canon L lenses, then you really have no particular “need” top get the MFT unless you want to get into the MFT system. If you use a cheaper Canon lens it will look worse than a good MFT lens like the Voigtlander 25 .95. But a Canon L lens will look better than a cheaper MFT lens.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
Hi Steve,
Not sure if I can answer all of your questions but hopefully I can give you some valid advice.
Personally, I own a HyperDeck shuttle which I bought to use with my HPX170. I’m very happy with it. The naming structure is easy to use and it’s a fairly simple device in general. Timecode though is not it’s thing and I’m not sure if it can be externally triggered. I think that it can (almost sure but I would look it up), but I’m not sure if it can be triggered from a Panasonic. Worth a test though. In my opinion though, the worst things about the HyperDeck are twofold. 1) It does not remove pulldown. So if your camera outputs a 60i signal over the SDI (like the HPX170 does regardless of framerate), it can’t read the data to remove the pulldown and conform it to 24p on the fly. This can be done in Compressor or After Effects or even Premiere but it won’t do it in hardware. 2) Settings cannot be changed without a computer. You need to plug it into a computer with the software installed to change recording settings.
The Atomos Samurai I’ve had problems with though a DP friend of mine loves his. Though we have had serious problems with it particularly when getting the footage into Media Composer 6/6.5. Not sure if Avid fixed this in MC7. I also am not as wild about the touch screen thing and I don’t think that it auto-triggers but again I’m not sure. It has it’s own timecode I know but unsure if it can use camera timecode. You can change settings in the field though which is nice. The Samurai is sort of the HyperDeck with a screen and more features.
The AJA Ki Pro and Ki Pro Mini are the best out there in my opinion. They are robust, portable, and easy to set in the field. But they are by far and away the most expensive.
In the end, you get what you pay for. All record several 10bit ProRes or 10 bit DNxHD. All will give you a better image than what you are getting internally using AVCHD.
But in the end, you get what you pay for. The HyperDeck and the Samurai both record to SSD’s which are expensive. The Ki Pro uses proprietary digital magazines and the Ki Pro Mini uses Compact Flash, but both AJA units requires broadcast style batteries while the Atomos uses Sony batteries and the HyperDeck has a built in rechargeable battery and can be plugged in. I would do the math and decide what you want to pay for including accessories and media. Full disclosure, I got my HyperDeck while already on the pre-order for the EF mount BMCC. I was already expecting to be buying copious amounts of SSD’s.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
It’s crucial to understand that 59.94 is not an overcranked frame rate. This is an interlaced format that as mentioned above refers to roughly 60 fields which plays back at a 30 fps speed though they are not 30 progressive frames.
Recording 60p would mean that it is recording 60p to be played over a 24p time base. the BMPC 4K does not do this nor is it even capable via firmware. Interlaced data rates are also far smaller so don’t expect that if it can handle 59.94 interlaced that it can handle 60 progressive.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
[Guy McLoughlin] “Always choose the right tool for the right job, and in this case the relatively low cost of an i7 computer is a small investment that should last you at least 4 years if not more. I am coming up on 5 years with my i7 computer, and it’s still a great computer for editing work.”
After spending 4 grand on a camera, I’m trying to help Robert make due with what he has for the time being. Not to tell him that he needs to go out and spend another $1,500. If Robert tries my suggestions and the results are unsatisfactory and he decides that it is best to upgrade his computer, then that is his prerogative but I am offering constructive, low cost options, and in some cases, free options that are always worth trying.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
Yes it’s true that the i3 chip is underpowered for video editing work but that doesn’t mean that you “can’t” do it. I’ve cut many a project on Core 2 Duo machines and it’s not pleasant but it can work.
To ease your post production woes, you should take a serious look at Cineform. Cineform is a digital intermediate and mastering codec that is extremely efficient and excels in h.264 workflows. Basically, you convert your footage to Cineform and edit with the Cineform files instead of the h.264. You will notice a much higher degree of quality, and hugely improved workflow. It is significantly less CPU intensive than h.264. Cineform is now owned by GoPro and the basic software, which is all you need, is free;
https://gopro.com/software-app/cineform-studio/
Also make sure that you are editing off of the fastest available external hard drive. If your computer has an eSATA port, you will get the best performance using a drive that has an eSATA interface. Often you may see these marketed at “Quad Interface” hard drives. The four interfaces in increasing speed will be USB 2.0, FireWire 400, FireWire 800, and eSATA. Example below;
https://g-technology.com/products/g-raid
Even faster than eSATA though is USB 3.0 so if you have this, that would be your best bet. See recommended drive below;
https://g-technology.com/products/g-drive
The importance of editing off of an external hard drive can’t be stressed enough and having a fast one connected by a fast interface will make a very big difference when it comes to real time playback performance and avoiding dropped frames.
As per your rolling shutter issues, you should be aware that just about every camera on the market nowadays is using a CMOS sensor over a CCD. CMOS offers higher resolution and sensitivity at lower cost as well as lower power consumption and lower cost of manufacture. This is the type of chip that you will find on cameras as diverse at the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, the Sony EX1, Canon DSLR’s, RED cameras, and even the Arri Alexa. These are problems that we are all facing.
There is a new process now in CMOS called “Global Shutter.” This is on the upcoming Blackmagic Production Camera, as well as the Sony F55. These sensors are CMOS sensors that have a universal readout like a CCD, i.e., no roll. Typically though this translates to higher power consumption, less sensitivity, more noise, and decreased dynamic range.
In the end, everything is a tradeoff. Ultimately, the AF100a is a fantastic camera that is capable of some truly stunning images. Panasonic color is known to be some of the best and the AF100a has a lot of the right things going for it so I would definitely not “give up.” Instead, take the time to learn how to shoot with it and to learn the post workflow because they will become valuable skills that you will be glad to have in the future.
I know this has been a lot to swallow so let me know if you have any more questions.
Hope this helps!
– Matt
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
Sure it will be backwards compatible but it will money spent on something that will be overtaken very shortly by better tech and increased functionality. If all you want is to run a BMD video card into a thunderbolt port, then sure, it will function the same regardless of having Thunderbolt 1 or 2, but if you want to put more powerful cards in there that will ultimately require higher bandwidth, you will have already spent the money on something that won’t have it.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3 -
While the odds are they it won’t flat out fall down, I just wouldn’t fully trust it. That moveable center column looks cool but I just would be concerned putting it at an odd angle with an AF100 and a lens on the other end. Especially if you plan on moving the camera at an odd angle like that instead of just having it locked down as you would in a still, that to me seems like a lot of unnecessary force when you could try to find a used dutch angle fluid head.
The other thing is that I don’t know what, if any, video heads will fit properly on the base.
Co-President at fourB Productions, Inc.
Blackmagic Cinema Camera, RED Scarlet-X, Panasonic HPX170, Canon 7D
2011 Macbook Pro 17″, 2.3 Ghz Quad Core, 16GB RAM
2008 Mac Pro 2.6 Ghz 8 Core, 10GB RAM
AJA IoXT, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, Blackmagic Mini Monitor
Adobe Production Premium CC, Avid Media Composer 7, Final Cut Pro Studio 3