[John Rofrano]

[Tom Burgess] “Ah, and there’s the rub. Refurbished Mac Pros for $500-$600 is great, but they’re too old to run the current OS. My limited looking around suggests that new Mac Pros cost 5X that: $2,500 to $3,000. That’s a horse of a different color…”

I’m sorry if you misunderstood me. I pointed you to OWC (MacSales) because their 2010 Mac Pro’s start at $1,049.00 and run the latest macOS so you don’t need to spend $2K plus.

[Tom Burgess] “If I were to purchase a new Mac Pro at approximately $3K, how long would I likely be able to run current OS upgrades and software apps? Three years? Five years? Longer?”

I would not purchase a new Mac Pro right now. There are rumors that a new Mac Pro may be coming next year so I would wait on buying anything new. Having said that, judging that 7 year old 2010 Mac Pro’s can still run the latest macOS 10.13 I’d guess that would be greater than 7 years. Now that technology has slowed and everything is 64 bit, I’m guessing that hardware will be compatable longer.

[Tom Burgess] “Most of my core audio and visual software is Mac/PC compatible, except for CorelDRAW and its bundled apps. CorelDRAW runs circles around Adobe Illustrator, but will likely NEVER be ported to the Mac. Do you have personal experience with any reliable and quick method of running Windows graphics apps inside the Mac OS?”

I run Windows programs on my Mac inside of the free VirtualBox and with VMware Fusion for Mac all the time. That’s how I maintain the plug-ins that I wrote for Vegas Pro. Here is Vegas Pro running on my MacBook Pro desktop using VMware Fusion Unity Mode:

That’s an advantage of owning a Mac. You can run Windows programs in a virtualized environment if you need to.

Having said that, I use Affinity Photo to replace Photoshop and Affinity Designer to replace Illustrator so you won’t need to run Windows to get outstanding graphics programs for the Mac. No subscription. Only $49.99 each. They even have an iPad app that is outstanding.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Ken Matson] “15 does not see/have my ultimate S “

That’s because MAGIX made Vegas Pro 14 & 15 incompatible with Script plug-ins from Vegas Pro 13 and earlier. You can download the latest Ultimate S Pro installer which is compatible with Vegas Pro 15 from the download page on the vasstsoftware.com web site

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

No you cannot. Everything has to be pre-rendered first. Even when you print to tape, it must first render a DV stream and then prints that stream to tape. It cannot superimposed in real-time.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Tom Burgess] “1. As a Windows user I’m pretty much assured of being able to run a new OS on my old box, within reason. It worries me that a newly released operating system can render a recently-purchased refurbished Mac Pro obsolete. The price for a refurb 2008 or 2009 Mac is lower than I thought it would be(!) but those machines are 9 and 10 years old. Are they likely to survive the next Mac OS release?”

They already have not survived. The latest macOS 10.13 High Sierra supports 2010 Mac Pro or later. So the 2008, 2009 Mac Pro are not supported by the latest macOS. Having said that, I updated a 7 year old PC I had to Windows 10 and I quickly downgraded it because performance was too slow to use. So while Microsoft doesn’t stop you from installing it, it doesn’t mean it’s usable. This is also one of the reason’s macOS is so lean and mean. They don’t include support for all the hardware that was ever manufactured. They drop support for very old hardware which keeps the OS lean.

[Tom Burgess] “2. If not, I’d be forced to remain with the existing OS for a year or two. Is that a viable option? Does running the previous Mac OS cause security issues? Would it be difficult/impossible to update/upgrade audio/video software applications?”

My 2008 Mac Pro is running macOS 10.11 El Capitan which is the latest that it can run. The only restriction is that is I cannot run the latest Final Cut Pro X on it which requires macOS 10.12 Sierra because it takes advantage of some GPU support that’s not in the older OS versions. That’s why I have the 2010 Mac Pro. My son is using the 2008 Mac Pro for his Graphic Design business and it runs Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator just fine. Apple has patched older versions for vulnerabilities but at some point (maybe older than 2 versions) that stops so you are taking a chance running an OS that is not getting security patches.

[Tom Burgess] “3. Are these the two applications you use and recommend for video editing?
a. Final Cut Pro X @ $300
b. Motion 5 @ $50

I’m not a videographer; I use video to further my work in other areas. If those two applications are all I’d need, $350 for both is a good deal. It makes the purchase of a Mac Pro make real sense.”

I would include $50 for Compressor 4 which is the batch rendering utility that also allows you to create new render templates and export them to FCP X. So all totaled it’s $400 for FCP X + Motion 5 + Compressor 4.

[Tom Burgess] “4. I see Final Cut Pro X online for as little as $95. Is that legitimate, or just a Problem Waiting to Happen?”

You cannot buy Final Cut Pro X from anyone except Apple. It is delivered through the Apple Store and only through the Apple Store. Anything else is a scam.

I did not pay $399 though… I waited until Christmas when Apple iTunes Gift Cards go on sale. I found a 20% off sale and purchased 4 x $100 iTunes Gift Cards for $80 each. I took that $400 in iTunes Gift Cards that I only paid $320 for and purchased Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, and Compressor 4, for effectively $320 making my own Apple sale. ???? (I buy all of my Apple software this way. I pick up a few iTune Gift Cards whenever they go on sale and make all of my Apple Store purchase with them)

[Tom Burgess] “I never thought I’d seriously consider a Mac…but here we are.”

Same here. I use a PC for over 30 years. Our neighbors had Macs and my kids begged me to get them a Mac I told them they were overpriced and I would never buy one. Then I got my father-in-law an iPad and when I helped him set up his email, it asked for his userid and password and the next thing he was in his mail! What? Why didn’t it ask for his SMTP server or POP3 server like my PC did??? Because the Mac developers don’t expect you to be system administrators… you only need to be an end user. Then I bought an iPad, and an iPhone, and finally was given a MacBook Pro at work that had the exact same specs as my PC laptop but it ran apps faster and could handle much heavier workloads without breaking a sweat. Workloads that would bring my PC laptop to it’s knees. I was sold. In fact, I sold all of my PC’s and bought Mac Pro’s and never looked back. You couldn’t get me to use a bloated Windows PC again if you paid me. So that’s my story.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Terry Daniels] “…can some one give me a list”

I don’t believe such a list exists. Here is the spec sheet from MAGIX:

Supported GPU

NVIDIA
1 GB recommended for 4K — required for Smart Zoom/Smart Scale/Smart adaptive deinterlacing, and GPU-accelerated video processing.
For hardware rendering (NVEnc):
• GeForce 600 series onwards (6xx, 7xx, 9xx, 10xx)
• Quadro Kxxx, Mxxx and Pxxx

AMD/ATI
Requires an OpenCL-enabled GPU and Catalyst driver 11.7 or later with a Radeon HD 57xx or higher GPU. If using a FirePro GPU, FirePro unified driver 8.85 or later is required.

Intel
Intel Skylake or newer processor required for QSV accelerated 8-bit HEVC/AVC decoding and encoding, Intel KabyLake or newer processor required for QSV accelerated 10-bit HEVC encoding and decoding.

Hopefully someone who has done some “real world” testing can add provide anecdotal information (which is what I believe you were asking for).

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Craig Alan] “Am I being too cautious? Are the FCP X backups and original media card copies bullet proof? “

I don’t think you’re being too cautious because nothing is bullet proof and the spinning hard drive platter is your worst enemy. I do the same thing as you, in fact… I’m worse. ????

I have three sets of storage: Camera Card Archives, Project Archives, and RAID 5 for work in progress. Here is how I use them:

I keep a collection of 1TB – 2TB USB 3.0 drives that are labeled: Camera Card Archive #1,2,3, etc. After a shoot, plug in one of the drives, place my camera card in the reader, open FCP X and use Import | Create Archive to create a camera card archive of my card to the external 1TB USB drive. Then I pop out the media and manually copy the archive I just made from the USB drive to a camera card archive folder on my RAID 5. So now I have two copies of my original footage, one on a single drive and one on a RAID 5 just in case. I don’t reformat the camera card until the second copy is completed.

When I’m ready to edit, I create an FCPX Library on my RAID 5 and import the footage from the camera card archive into the Library. This keeps everything I’m editing in the Library for easy backup. I also have a second set of single 1TB – 2TB USB 3.0 drives labeled: Project Archive #1,2,3, etc. that I copy the Library to at the end of the day (or end of an editing session). This gives me two copies of my work in process.

Using that three location system, I always have two copies of the original footage and my project with media at all times. As the RAID 5 gets full, I can delete older camera card archives because I have the off-line backup on the Camera Card Archive drives and the footage is also in the project Libraries. For really old projects I will delete the Libraries from my RAID 5 knowing that I have the off-line backup on the Project Archive drive should I need to go back to them.

You can never have too many backups but I would definitely continue to create incremental backups of your RAID to single drives because disks will fail. It’s not a question of if… but when. A RAID is not a backup in and of itself. It is a technology for high availability when a failure happens but you need to be prepared with a backup in case you lose more than one drive or a second drive fails during a rebuild (which is extremely punishing on drives).

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Tom Burgess] “IF you’d care to make an off-the-cuff recommendation (no research!) with regard to which Mac might suit my work and my budget,”

I am very happy with my two Mac Pro towers. They have 4 HDD/SDD bays, 2 DVD bays (I put a Blu-ray burner in mine) and 4 slots. I added a USB 3.1 card, and eSATA card with SSD’s on it so they are just as fast as any modern computer.

The Mac Pro towers can be had at a great price. I did a quick search on eBay and found these:

• Apple Mac Pro 3.46GHz 12 Cores – 512GB SSD + 4TB HD – 64GB RAM – ATI Radeon 5770 (Price: US $2,299.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 3.33GHz 12 Core – 512GB SSD + 4TB HD – 64GB RAM – ATI Radeon 5770 (Price: US $1,999.00 or Best Offer)
• Mid 2012 Mac Pro | 3.33GHz 12-core | 64 GB | 480GB SSD + 2TB | ATI 5770 1GB (Price: US $1,699.00)
• Mac Pro 12-Core,2×2.66GHz,500GB SSD,16GB,2TB HD,1GB Video, Keybd & Trackpad 2 (Price: US $1,279.00)
• Mac Pro 2.93 GHz 12-Core (2010) (MC561LL/A) | 48GB 1TB | GOOD CONDITION (Current bid: US $590.00)
• Mac Pro 2.93 GHz 12-Core (2010) (MC561LL/A) | 32GB 500GB | SEE DESC (Current bid: US $570.00)

You don’t want anything older than a 2010 because the latest macOS High Sierra requires a Mac Pro Mid 2010 or newer. This is important because if you want to use the latest Final Cut Pro X and Motion, it often takes advantage of new graphics subsystems and requires the latest OS to run.

At a minimum you want one with an ATI Radeon HD 5770 Graphics card. If you can find one with the ATI Radeon HD 5870 Graphics Card even better (that was offered as an upgrade). The 5870 is twice (2x) the speed of 5770 so it is a big boost in performance. Both of my Mac Pro’s had the better ATI Radeon HD 5870 in them.

As with everything on eBay you want to be careful about who you buy from. Look at other things they are selling. Obviously check their ratings. I bought my 2008 Mac Pro 8-Core from a graphic artist who upgraded to a new 2013 Mac Pro. I bought my 2010 Mac Pro 12-Core from a company that buys IT equipment and refurbishes it and stands behind it. I had no problems with either of them.

If you don’t like shopping on eBay, I can HIGHLY recommend Other World Computing (OWC). I buy all of my accessories there. They refurbish Mac’s so you pay a little more but you get a warrantee and a solid computer.

From their Used Mac Pro page they have plenty to choose from. Here are the bottom prices for each of the Core configurations (4, 6, 8, 12):

• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.8GHz 4-Core, 8GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,049.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.66GHz 6-Core, 8GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,149.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.4GHz 8-Core, 16GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,599.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.66GHz 12-Core, 16GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,799.00)

A 12-Core Mac Pro for $1,799.00 from a reputable company that stands behind their sales is well worth it in my book.

Having said all that… the real beauties are the iMacs. You’re getting an absolutely gorgeous 27 inch display included in the deal. Check out their Used iMacs page.

• Apple iMac 27″ Quad-Core i7 3.4GHz, Thunderbolt, 8GB Memory | 1.0TB HD | SuperDrive (US $1,029.00)

Then there is the iMac Retina 5K. OMG, I went to the Apple Store to see one of these in person and the display has to be seen to be believed. It is 5K (not 4K but 5K) That means when you’re editing 4K video on the FCP X timeline, the Preview is a full 4K and the playback is buttery smooth! The display is breathtaking. Here is one fairly beefed up:

• Apple iMac 27″ Quad-Core i5, 3.5GHz with Retina 5K Display, 24GB | 1.0T SSDHD Fusion, Kb/Mouse New Cond. w/1 Year Apple Warranty ($1,599.00)

Considering you’re getting a 5K display with a computer for $1,599.00 that’s not a bad deal. Nothing else to buy.

OK, so now that I told you it was easy I probably made your head spin with all off the choices. LOL… ???? there are really only 2 choices. Get a Mac Pro tower and use your old display or get an iMac all-in-one… then just select how many cores and memory and the decision is done.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Tom Burgess] “I find no information regarding VEGAS Pro for Mac. “

That’s because there is no Vegas Pro for Mac and I highly doubt there will ever be one without a complete rewrite because Vegas Pro is deeply tied to proprietary Microsoft technology. Graham was just fooling around with me because I’ve been trying to convert him to a Mac user on the side. ????

[Tom Burgess] “I read up on the Hackintosh concept, and per your remarks above, John, the prospect is more trouble than it’s worth. “

Indeed it is. A big part of the beauty of owning a Mac is that the Apple developers are developing FCP X on the EXACT same hardware that you are. Same CPU, same GPU, no questions about what GPU worked best or anything like that. You are using the same hardware they designed the software for so why on earth would you want to use random PC hardware? It defeats the whole purpose of buying a Mac.

[Tom Burgess] “Apple’s business model has always involved keeping a lock on EVERYTHING, so no one can operate (for long) outside restrictions that amount to an iron-fisted monopoly (if you ask me). It makes sense from a business standpoint, but is anathema to me. I’m deeply DIY and a big proponent of independent thinking. “

There is a huge advantage in owning both the hardware and software. That’s why iOS will always be a better user experience than Android and why macOS will always be a better user experience than Windows. I use to think that the trackpad on a Mac was just like the trackpad on a Windows computer. Then I bought a Mac! They are NOTHING alike. Not even a little. TOTALLY different experience. I hate when I have to touch the trackpad on a friends Windows laptop because it is practically useless compared to the functionality on a Mac.

It also depends on what business you are in? Are you in business to design, build, and support computers? That doesn’t make me any money so I don’t waste time with that anymore. If you like fiddling with computers then by all means build your own and support it yourself. Buying a turnkey system doesn’t stunt my “independent thinking” because I don’t “think” about computers… I use them as tool to get stuff that counts done. If I feel the need to tinker around I boot up my Raspberry Pi. ????

[Tom Burgess] “Microsoft WIndows is problematic and arcane, but it gives people like me opportunities to make independent choices (to a point) about hardware and software that Mac users simply don’t enjoy.”

You assume that Windows users enjoy making those decisions. I see people come here and agonize over what CPU or GPU to buy that works best with Vegas Pro. They spend weeks researching it. If you enjoy that, it’s great. Don’t assume everyone does. (I do not)

You have to ask yourself, “What is your core competence?”. Mine is editing video. You want to take away my choices when editing video I will fight you to the bitter end. You want to take away my choice of what CPU or GPU to buy I could care less. Just give me a computer that performs well and I’m happy. What will my next computer be? An iMac Pro hands down. What GPU does it have? Who cares, it has the GPU that the Apple developers have optimized FCP X to use. As long as it performs well I don’t care.

[Tom Burgess] “It also lowers the cost considerably. “

Only if you decide to buy cheap parts and yes, that’s up to you. My Mac Pro’s use Xeon CPU’s and ECC memory. Yes, you can buy a consumer CPU and regular memory cheaper… but you won’t get the reliability of using better parts.

[Tom Burgess] “Of course, the simplicity of using the Mac (as you describe) offsets most of that…IF you can afford the machine. And the next machine.”

Mac hardware is not more expensive and has been proven many times. In fact, when it first came out, the The $10,000 Mac Pro was $2,000 CHEAPER than equivalent PC hardware. The Mac seems more expensive because it doesn’t use cheap parts but if you buy the same quality parts to make a PC, it will cost the same or more. Apple doesn’t really have a budget line so people on a budget always say that Macs are expensive but at the top end, they are very competitively priced with equivalent PC’s.

I’m editing on a 2010 Mac Pro 12-Core that I picked up on eBay several years ago for $2400. It’s a 7 year old computer now and it edits blazingly fast. Would you want to edit on a 7 year old PC? My son does all of his graphics design on my 2008 Mac Pro 8-core. That’s almost 10 years old and going strong. I read that IBM just moved a majority of it’s employees over to Mac’s because taking the total cost of ownership into account, Macs last longer and require less support than PC’s. These are not my claims, these are the IBM CIO’s claims. These documented facts are changing the way major corporations are viewing Macs as an investment.

The Mac isn’t for everyone. If you want to build your own computer you should probably stick with Windows. If you like picking parts and hoping they all work together then stick with PC’s. (I have built several PC’s and just because the specs match doesn’t mean the parts will work together… been there… got burned) But if you want to edit video right away instead of spending weeks agonizing over parts and then hours or days figuring out why your new iPhone footage won’t display properly in your PC NLE… get a Mac! lol 😀

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Graham Bernard] “iTwixtor? iMercalli? iScripts? iNeatVideo?…”

Actually, I have all of my old plug-ins (Mercalli, Neat Video, Boris FX, Red Giant, etc) on my Mac so I didn’t loose any of those and there are many more plug-ins for FCP X than Vegas Pro has, so no loss of creative plug-ins by moving. In fact, I have more choices now and some of them are outstanding like those from MotionVFX. This was a huge benefit in moving to the Mac.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[John Rofrano]

[Graham Bernard] “iVegas?”

The audio capabilities would certainly be welcome because Final Cut Pro X doesn’t have audio buses which I miss a lot. It does have a nice concept of Roles where I can tag a clip as being Dialog, or Music, etc. and then apply FX to only the Dialog clips or render out the Dialog on one channel and the Music clips on another which makes it very easy to create stems to send to Logic Pro X or ProTools for further sweetening but I miss having audio buses with FX that clips get routed to and processed separately.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com