[Jim Giberti]

[Chris Harlan] “That sounds very cool. I get the gist of what you are doing, but not quite the particulars. Maybe when I get a breath, I need to try to duplicate, but I would love to see some screen shots if you are client-authorized to do so.
“

Hey Chris, the client has even seen a rough yet so I can’t put anything up, but I could rough out a dummy easily enough. Conceptually once I broke away from my existing “faders and busses” paradigm that I knew I would have to (sort of dreaded) it became pretty obvious how they designed this to work.

I already have a list of, please do this fast” things. The biggest so far is a silly bug/oversight that when you are working in real time with, say, a parametric EQ and adjust Q and frequency for instance. In any system I use I select the range I need to hear as I sculpt it and hit (in X) the “/” bar and Command/L to loop the selection until I get it.

In X, as soon as you make an adjustment to the FX it goes out of Loop mode and you have to keep bringing it back. I’ll work around it with a marker for now, but that’s one they’ve got to patch quickly so that this is as fast as what it should be.

Anyway, ask away.
I’m getting more comfortable with the concept by the hour.

[Jim Giberti]

[jon smitherton] “EQ + Compression on each track
then tracks are bussed to stems (VO, Dialogue, Music, Effects)
then compression are applied to the stems
then over the Master Bus – Compression and a Limiter to keep in broadcast specs.
Then I start keyframing levels either on the clip or bus.

As you can see there are varying degrees of Compression – usually light on each one – 2 to 1 to 4 to 1 compression ratios to keep the mix under control.

With your technique the problem for me is that because of my degrees of compression – is going backward into stems or tracks. For Instance, I need to hear the master bus output when I adjust the one of stems. With compounding it doesn’t allow this.”

Jon, I’m doing exactly what you describe in PT right in the X timeline.
Even easier than you can do it in PT or DP or Logic while mixing to picture.
Use “Break Apart Clip Items” not “Open in Timeline” and see how nice it works.

[Jim Giberti]

[David Lawrence] “Yes, but if you “Break Apart”, doesn’t that remove any transitions? What if you use crossfades between clip elements?”

This is why I wanted you to weigh in David, I’m doing this in real time so I can check it as I go.

No, any fade you make to the clip (using the cross fade handles) stay with the clips inside the CC that is inside the Secondary if you “Break Apart” the clip elements.

I think more importantly, the way I’m doing it, there’s absolutely no issue if you break apart the clip to edit it in reference with the Primary or other audio tracks/Secondaries above and below. Those clips remain hilighted even as you adjust the volume level of a single clip, so you don’t even have to reselect, just hit Option/G after adjusting a level and it closes to a CC again .

And you continue to see all waveform info in the Secondaries – just not the lines that break the CC into separate clips within it.

[Jim Giberti]

[Andy Field] “Sorry – I’ve ready your post a few times – but am not understanding how you are “mixing” on the fly – I’m assuming you are rubber banding and then grouping tracks as sub-mixes — “

Andy, let me start by how I’d handle the mix after exporting it to Digital Performer in the audio suite. First I’d open each individual voice clip that comprised an actor’s track and level each of those visually by dragging the level line of each (same as FCP) to get a a balanced track to begin with.

After doing this with any tracks with multiple levels, I’d switch into my mixer, Zero everything out and start assigning my choice EQ and FX plugs to each tracks sends and begin and automated mix (depending on the complexity). I’ll usually bounce in and out of Mixer to Sequence (fcp timelineish) to adjust specific audio with the fine control of keying.

Using the R (Range Selector) is the way to make immediate 4 point keyframe audio changes to the tracks. I don’t think rubber band but key framing from a continuity standpoint.

If you followed me, I’ve already created Tracks/CCs that I drop the clips I want fixed in time into.
They’re already grouped and have audio controls attached.

In other words, Compound Clips are busses, and they’re easier busses than in any traditional DAW I work with.

[Andy Field] “You also say you didn’t see the value of the mixer in FCP 7 – when in fact we use it every hour every day as a real time “lets listen – did we get this balance right?…let me bring the music up and down for dramatic impact at this point” mixes. In real time.

I can’t imagine you’ve found a way to do that in FCP X – or have you?
“

Sure I have .
First I say the mixer in 7 is pretty useless because you can’t apply master FX to the tracks in 7, they’re not like tracks in a DAW. In X, bussing with CCs is actually better than a DAW for this.

If you want to “bring the music up and down for dramatic impact at this point” mixes. In real time. “, you don’t need to open a mixer – just select the Secondary labeled “Music Bed” and right there in the Inspector there’s a master volume and pan control for that buss.

Done.

[Jim Giberti]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Basically, it would be nice to be able to edit what’s in the compound clip in greater context of the over arching timeline rather than having to “step in” and open the compound in it’s own timeline. You lose the relationship to your timeline (the elements outside the compound clip) a little bit the way it is currently setup.”

Not if you “Break Apart” rather than “Open in Timeline” Jeremy. The first moves you into it’s own unreferenced timeline (to the Primary) and you need to step back. Break Apart shows the individual elements in context and a quick Option/G closes them up. So you can tweak any edit, either way.

[Jim Giberti]

The one thing I wanted to mention too David, having the CCs laid out as traditional horizontal tracks removes the “hidden” aspect of media. In vertical stacks of compositing, collapsing segments into CCs is nice and easily opened and closed. Together it’s the best of both worlds sort of locked and magnetic, visible and uncluttered depending on the edit and what you’re focused on at the time.

[Jim Giberti]

[David Lawrence] “Yes, very interesting Jim. I’d also love to see a screen grab of your setup. I’m skeptical of Compound Clips because I don’t like how they hide information, so I’m curious to see how you’re using them.”

Hey David, I was hoping to hear from some of the big brains in the debate to test my thinking. It’s all new and I’m in the thick of it now.

This particular project isn’t a national spot, but it’s for a national manufacturer for their dealers to air as well as a short promo film for their website. It’s the only thing I’ve worked with regarding this and while I can’t show it, I think I can explain it easily enough and would love to answer any questions.

After reading a lot of your thoughts and examples I was thinking of you when I “disabled” the magnetic timeline as part of my approach to the first mix.

I can give you the short hand on that which I’m sure you’ll get:

After I got a rough cut together (the clips were shot with on camera sound to synch the external audio )
I had all the actors and attached audio in the Primary.

Before I added the audio to be synched, music tracks etc. I inserted a one frame gap at the head of the Primary. Then I took a random slice of audio and Qed it to connect it to that 1st frame then I did the same at the end of the project.

Of course these are now aligned horizontally directly under the Primary. I selected both and Option/G to make a CC/ “track” that ran the length of the project and I named the CC “Music Bed”. Option drag this to create as many tracks as you want, all fixed to the frame at the top of the Primary.

With a simple Command/G these all become Secondaries, but really they are now tracks that you can D/Overwrite any content into and keep locked.

Then I added the voice clips that needed to be synched to the Primary, Shift dragged the first to be directly under the Primary and all the “locked tracks slide down one and now I had an open lane to fill in the clips I wanted “magnetized”.

So now go about your edit, auditioning and moving clips, leveling audio individually (as I’d always in FCP or DP) etc.

Once you’ve got your edit and you want to do your audio mix and master, quickly select the “Tara” clips in the Timeline or Index and Option/G and now that CC is a buss for Tara ready for one step EQ, leveling etc. Step and repeat for each individual group you want to buss and as you Option/G , they are automatically bussed with master fader, pan and any effects – the beauty of the inspector and filters being right there, always active.

And everything appears neatly and in hierarchy under the Primary. If you need to tweak, Open in TImeline, tweak, step back in the Timeline and everything is as you left it but with the tweak.

When you’re ready to master, grab all the CCs and Secondaries, Option/G and name it Master Out and you’ve got a master buss with volume pan and all the finishing tools right there. Everything is neatly in a single master audio track but can be opened and closed in real time.

Now go back and delete the one frame gap inserted before the edit, select the Master Out audio and hit “,” and everything is lined up from the top.

[Jim Giberti]

[Walter Soyka] “FCPX’s Event Browser is a DAM (digital asset manager), built right into the NLE. I think that FCPX will do for asset management what Color did for grading: increase awareness of — and access to — a feature that was once limited to high-end workflows.”

Great way to put it Walter.
I’d add that unlike Color, (that wasn’t Apple’s and was old code) this isn’t the end but the beginning.
I think it’s obvious that there are solid pillars under the structure.

[Jim Giberti]

[Darren Kelly] “Fact: Apple is promising a few missing features.
Fact: Apple has stated they are going to let 3rd party developers develop most of the solutions(plugins)
Fact: Apple has not promised to make FCPX into a full NLE .”

Darren, I think there’s one thing that is a “fact” when drawing any opinion regarding X and that fact is – all programs evolve from their initial release.

Perhaps another useful fact in making long term predictions is the time and money that goes into developing a major new app.

Given those two actual facts, it seems logical that X isn’t dead and done on as you suggest in your initial post. History and experience would strongly suggest that rather than a dead end, FCP X is at the beginning of a well invested road.

The relevant questions are: Can you work with it now? and if not, Are you prepared to follow it’s growth as a future app?

Absolute statements never seem to work out in the end.

[Jim Giberti]

[Mark Dobson] “FCPX is so radically different from any previous version that any way it was presented was going to be controversial. “

Hey Mark,
I like the program and I’m editing a bunch of work with it, but I can’t agree with this.
Life is filled with change, it’s the nature of the thing.
Technology even more so.
But that doesn’t mean it can’t be handled thoughtfully and in a way that satisfies both the new user and the existing base of editors making a living with your old technology.

I don’t find anything the Herb wrote that would be remotely difficult for Apple to have done and it would have had a good deal of positive impact. The essential question will always be why they chose the hard road.