Jeff Regan
Forum Replies Created
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Yes, transferring 6, 8 or more hours of footage at the end of a long shoot day is not my idea of a good time either. Local PA? These young kids are good with computers!
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
I think all Panasonic has to do is use the same sensor as their GH1 SLR camera, combine it with AVC Intra, sell it for under $15K, and they’d have something.
Regarding P2 cameras not being good choices for documentary work, as long as their is a chance to do transfers at the end of a shoot day,
they can be viable. Five 64Gb P2 cards at 1080/24PN using AVC Intra 50 would record for over 13 hours. This would still provide quality as good or better than XDCAM 422 and a 500Gb hard drive costs less than 500Gb worth of XDCAM discs.AVC Intra 100 is superior to any 8 bit codec, and would still yield over six hours of recording time at 1080/24PN. The new P2 E series card should allow for faster transfer speeds, if the computer hardware doesn’t create a bottleneck. Other than the cost of hard drives, there is no extra post cost when using P2 cards, unlike XDCAM 422.
I do agree that discs are better for archival than tape or hard drives. Of course footage could still be transferred to disc in post for archival.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
I don’t believe the HPX3700 and PDW800 are an apples to apples comparison. The HPX3700 was designed as a cine style, high end camera for commercials and episodics and even feature films shooting for filmout. The AVC Intra codec is 10 bit, not 8 bit like XDCAM 422, I-frame not, Long GOP, 100Mbps, not a max. of 50Mbps.
The PDW800 is more of a network reality, news, magazine camera. It costs $42,000 vs. the non-trade in price of $60,000 for the HPX3000.
At $30,000 with trade in, the 3000 is a high end production camera at an attractive price.The 3000 can record 6 hours and 40 minutes of 1080/24PN AVC Intra 100 footage with 5 64Gb P2 cards, or double that at AVC Intra 50, making the 3000 a viable documentary/long form camera without having to carry disc cartridges around all day.
Those that think P2 cards should be priced like tapes or discs aren’t really thinking in a tapeless workflow mindset. The cheap P2 card is really the 500Gb external hard drive that the footage is transferred to for $100–about half the price of 500Gb worth of XDCAM discs and no studio deck or disc transport required in post.
Sony is selling a ton of $6-8,000 EX1 and EX3 cameras, which are true tapeless cameras–I just don’t see a $42,000 plus $4,000 viewfinder XDCAM camera becoming the next BETACAM, I don’t see ANY camera ever doing that again.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
John,
Yes, RED is the wrong camera for most of my clients as well. I get the shallow depth of field with my HDX900 by using my Letus Ultimate and B4 Pro 2/3″ relay lens with Nikon, Canon or PL-mount Cine lenses.
I think Panasonic should have shown an empty box at NAB with their logo and a 35mm lens mounted to it, “Price to be Determined”, “Delivery to be Determined”, just to give potential RED camera buyers pause.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
John,
Great perspective on established infrastructure, however I disagree that migrating to tapeless would cost much in the post realm. If a producer is already renting a camera, all they need to do is bring a couple of hard drives with them. Archiving can be an expense, but memory gets cheaper by the day.
The next wave has already come, it’s RED ONE with somewhere around 5,000 cameras sold. So RED ONE is an example of tapeless workflow being embraced on a fairly large scale for and narrative and commercials, in addition to various XDCAM flavors for news, magazine and reality, and all the Panasonic palmcorders that started this in around 2004.
Let’s not forget that all that realtime tape ingest is time consuming and labor intensive and the maintenance on those HDCAM and DVCAM tape transports can be expensive.
The editors I work with hate it when I bring them tapes instead of hard drives and the latter saves my clients money due to the fast ingest of footage. There’s also a financial cost and environmental impact to producing all of those tapes, not all of which are archived, many are thrown away. The tapes take up a fair amount of storage space as well, sitting there for archival.
Yes, as a DP, I would really rather not have to sit around waiting for cards or on-board hard drives to transfer to external hard drives on set, and as a rental house owner, educating clients on tapeless workflow is time consuming, but to pretend that this isn’t where all production is headed is delaying the inevitable.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
I think the point about educating clients about workflow is an important one. As a small rental facility owner, I’ve had to tout the benefits of file based recording, whether using a FireStore or nNovia on-board hard drive, or P2 or SxS cards, a case for edit ready media needs to be made.
It’s ironic that on the low end, HVX200’s or EX1, tapeless recording has been embraced, yet on the higher end, clients are afraid of anything other than tape. High end P2 cameras have not achieved traction in my rental market, even though most of my clients use a FireStore in conjunction with my HDX900 while backing up with tape.
To my way of thinking, P2 is more reliable than a Firestore, more convenient and now offers AVC Intra in addition to DVCPRO HD.Panasonic has diluted the Varicam name, however, by offering two models. The 3700 is not really a true Varicam due to its frame rate limitations. So the decision between a 2700 and 3700 is difficult, even if we can get over the P2 hurdle.
Right now, 2/3″ cameras just aren’t sexy in a world of RED ONE and Canon 5D large sensor cameras–even though the 2/3″ cameras are so much more convenient and user friendly to shoot and edit with.
The bad economy, better and better palmcorder options and new, sexy seeming large sensor cameras makes investing in “old school” 2/3″ cameras a difficult decision. I think the 3700 for $30K or a 2700 for a similar price point offer a lot of value and I believe in the P2 workflow–just a matter of getting clients to be on the same page.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
Daniel,
Your understanding is similar to what I believe to be the case. AVC Intra 100 offers a lot of benefits over DVCPRO HD, so that the cost of the option board should be worthwhile. I really like the fact that Native recording is available in 1080p now, besides the 10 bit, full raster image quality benefits.
I’ve used AVC Intra 100 with HPX3000’s and HPM110 P2 Mobile, and it’s a fantastic codec.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
Using System Mode 1080/59.94i, recording in DVCPRO HD, 1080/24p will be 23.98p over 59.94i(2:3), no Native mode available for P2 recording. HD SDI output will be 23.98Psf over 59.94i(2:3). There is also a PA mode for a 2:3:3:2 pulldown.
Using System Mode 1080/23.98Psf recording in AVC Intra, 1080/23.98p will be 23.98p Native for P2 recording. HD SDI output will be 23.98Psf over 47.96i(2:2).
So the key is using AVC Intra 50 or 100 onto P2 cards to achieve full progressive capture, although many would argue that Psf is still progressive after the segmented fields are combined.
Maybe Jan Crittendon or Steve Cooperman from Panasonic can weigh in on this?
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
I’m not sure what “true 1080p” is, but the HPX2000 uses native 720p sensors and upscales to 1080. DVCPRO HD does not offer 1080/24P or 30P Native modes, however AVC Intra does offer 1080/24P and 30P Native. Regardless, the HD SDI output is whatever frame rate, progressive or interlace over 59.94i.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
60p is unlikely to happen for the 3700. It would require new sensors–most likely CMOS. Just not practical in an ENG form factor camera on an existing camera model. I think Mr. Cooperman made it pretty clear about Panasonic’s position on the camera.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com