-
But is a HPX3700 Varicam “shovel ready?” for making money?
So the big question now is: Can money be made in this crazy market with the Panasonic HPX3700 Varicam? I have never known any one to use one in a production.. In the LA market all the cheap productions are using the small P2 VX200 cameras, the SOny EXI and the EX3 and the RED. I know of one feature shot with the Panasonic 2000 (the director loved the camera and chose it over the RED for its low light capabilities, mobility and P2 workflow) but isn’t that camera about 20k? I just worked on the Michael Jackson death circus for the network and the only “full size” P2 camera that I saw working ( there were hundreds from all over the world) was the Panasonic 500 that was feeding SD analogue 16/9 into a sat truck for the BBC. Is Panasonic 3700 “shovel ready” for making money in this economy, of just another piece of expensive bling bling for financial ruin? Just wondering…
-
35 Replies
-
What your guestimate of the numbers of types of formats used at the Jackson thing, Mark?
Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au -
[Peter Corbett] “What your guestimate of the numbers of types of formats used at the Jackson thing, Mark?”
Betacam 4/3, Digibeta, PAL, Betacam 16/9 SD, Betacam SX, XDCAM, Sony HDV, DVCPro, DVCPRO HD, P2, DVCAM, DV. No RED cameras were observed. Australian TV was next to me with multi Sony 700 EDCAMs switching a live HD through a “briefcase” size switcher– very cool…
I was feeding a SAT truck a SD 4/3 signal from a Betacam camera, never “rolling tape”
-
I’d be happy to hear differently but my guess is very few people (free lance owner/ops) are doing well with P2 Varicams. Too few “2/3″ camera” productions are working with this format. The last post was an example.
Ive worked as a free lance cameraman for many years and my clients still mostly ask for tape in 2/3″ production. The current “flavor of the month” in mini camera’s is leaning heavily toward the Sony 1/2″ EX cameras. Next month who knows!
Erich Roland
http://www.dc-camera.com
HD camera rentals, Washington DC
(and Cameraman) -
Interesting question on the 3700
We have an inventory of SDX-900’s and HDX-900’s and have
recently bought (2) of the HPX-3700 and (1) HPX-2000 .I think for it to work, you will need to be pro-active with your
clients to understand the workflow. Which is actually quite easy.We are very impressed with the 3700’s AVC-Intra for green screen and
high end work. We may also be getting some codex digital recorders to take advantage of the 4:4:4 output of the camera…We have used multiple SDX-900’s and HDX-900 for 4 – camera shoots.
Our clients will be moving to the 3700’s very shortly.For data management, we’re using the Wrangler Pro from 1-beyond.
https://www.1beyond.comthey also provide a very nice and compact 2-drive RAID 1 system that uses 320GB drives mounted in a shock mount shell. And only costing a little more than the off the shelf drives from Staples. With much
higher quality…We are sold on the P-2’s and will probably get more 3700’s under the trade up system…
Having said that… we may also be looking at the Sony PDW-F800’s
ah. the pleasures of running a rental company..
tnx… Gary
-
I think the point about educating clients about workflow is an important one. As a small rental facility owner, I’ve had to tout the benefits of file based recording, whether using a FireStore or nNovia on-board hard drive, or P2 or SxS cards, a case for edit ready media needs to be made.
It’s ironic that on the low end, HVX200’s or EX1, tapeless recording has been embraced, yet on the higher end, clients are afraid of anything other than tape. High end P2 cameras have not achieved traction in my rental market, even though most of my clients use a FireStore in conjunction with my HDX900 while backing up with tape.
To my way of thinking, P2 is more reliable than a Firestore, more convenient and now offers AVC Intra in addition to DVCPRO HD.Panasonic has diluted the Varicam name, however, by offering two models. The 3700 is not really a true Varicam due to its frame rate limitations. So the decision between a 2700 and 3700 is difficult, even if we can get over the P2 hurdle.
Right now, 2/3″ cameras just aren’t sexy in a world of RED ONE and Canon 5D large sensor cameras–even though the 2/3″ cameras are so much more convenient and user friendly to shoot and edit with.
The bad economy, better and better palmcorder options and new, sexy seeming large sensor cameras makes investing in “old school” 2/3″ cameras a difficult decision. I think the 3700 for $30K or a 2700 for a similar price point offer a lot of value and I believe in the P2 workflow–just a matter of getting clients to be on the same page.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
“It’s ironic that on the low end, HVX200’s or EX1, tapeless recording has been embraced, yet on the higher end, clients are afraid of anything other than tape.”
They’re not afraid. The big guys just have bigger fish to fry.
Waaaay back at the dawn of the HD era…some four or five years ago…many large program producers spent millions of dollars upgrading their infrastructure to HD equipment. All that equipment was tape-based. Racks and racks of it. Studio decks, feed decks, editing decks, mastering decks, logging decks. HDCams and Varicams were bought by the dozens. Avid suites by the dozens were upgraded or replaced. Entire facilites were re-wired. Money was tossed around like confetti. Where did that money come from? Debt.
Freelancers like me, who are in integral part of the production process, followed suit…in my case, the day after I got the call. And many, like me, eventually bought more than one flavor of HD camera. How did I pay for it? Debt. At that time, we all paid top dollar to be in on the leading wave. Thousands of hours of programming were shot and produced using this gear. It looked great. Still does. In fact, it’s on the air right now.
“Workflow” is a trendy term these days. In reality, that overused and overblown term “workflow” simply means how you do your work in a way that makes economic sense for you. These large content producers have an established workflow that works for them. Whether you capture images on ss media, disc or tape, shots must still be recorded and sent, transferred or captured and logged, the stories written and produced. And in the end, programs must be delivered on something, and all that very expensive media (raw and finished) must be archived.
That’s a nasty little problem, archiving. Most “High-end” clients can produce hours and hours of broadcast quality programming every week, and need a secure, safe and cost-effective way to protect that valuable content. It’s simple. So far, nothing has come along that will do it better or or more cheaply than tape.
Any small efficiency gains in the process are always great and welcome, but in reality, and in many cases, the capital expenditures have already been made. These program producers might have taken on a tremendous amout of debt to get into the HD arena during the initial wave of transition. Many are sitting on mountains of HD tape gear that still works just fine but would be worth mere pennies on the dollar on the secondary market. Considering the cutthroat nature and razor-thin margins of this business, the tough economic climate right now and the extremely tight credit markets, who in their right mind would want to transition to what can only be called interim formats, even if they could find the capital to do it?
Not that I’m a luddite. If my main clients called me tomorrow and demanded P2 or XDCam, I’d change in a minute…the same way I got into HDCam several years ago. Yet I’m not convinced (and I don’t think I’m alone)in thinking tapeless is all that more efficient or cost-effective. To me, it just shifts the work around and introduces another set of issues that must be dealt with. Certainly for many large companies, not enough reason to pitch millions of dollars of gear that may or may not be paid for or fully depreciated yet.
I’d love a shiny new camera. But curiously, that P2 call hasn’t come yet. I’m waiting. As a businessman…and at the end of the day that’s what I am…I’m not all that surprised…and yet not all that disappointed. Has anyone here tried to get an equipment loan lately?
Sorry for the ramble. I think the new Varicams are flawed as well. A compromise. They’re a work in progress. I think many of us in my non-fiction niche in this business are keeping our hands off our wallets and waiting for the next big thing. I think this latest Panasonic promotion pretty much confirms that.
Personally, I hope that next big thing doesn’t involve expensive, outdated and propietary recording media.
J Cummings
Cameralogic/Chicago
cameralogic.tv
HDX-900/HDW-730S/DXC-D50 -
John,
Great perspective on established infrastructure, however I disagree that migrating to tapeless would cost much in the post realm. If a producer is already renting a camera, all they need to do is bring a couple of hard drives with them. Archiving can be an expense, but memory gets cheaper by the day.
The next wave has already come, it’s RED ONE with somewhere around 5,000 cameras sold. So RED ONE is an example of tapeless workflow being embraced on a fairly large scale for and narrative and commercials, in addition to various XDCAM flavors for news, magazine and reality, and all the Panasonic palmcorders that started this in around 2004.
Let’s not forget that all that realtime tape ingest is time consuming and labor intensive and the maintenance on those HDCAM and DVCAM tape transports can be expensive.
The editors I work with hate it when I bring them tapes instead of hard drives and the latter saves my clients money due to the fast ingest of footage. There’s also a financial cost and environmental impact to producing all of those tapes, not all of which are archived, many are thrown away. The tapes take up a fair amount of storage space as well, sitting there for archival.
Yes, as a DP, I would really rather not have to sit around waiting for cards or on-board hard drives to transfer to external hard drives on set, and as a rental house owner, educating clients on tapeless workflow is time consuming, but to pretend that this isn’t where all production is headed is delaying the inevitable.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
Oh I agree completely.
Tapeless is certainly the present for some and the future for the rest of us. I was just offering my perpective on why so many large content producers seem to be in no hurry to jump on the tapeless bandwagon. When they jump, I will, too. After all, archiving isn’t my problem and I work by the hour in the field.
I do use an EX3 occasionally with a small production house. I like it well enough…especially on a tripod.
The Red is indeed a swell camera for narrative and commercial work. I dig the large imager for it’s shallow depth of field. I would think editors love it not just for the look but also for the increased hours it involves in post. Unfortunately, it’s a train wreck for the kind of work I do…run and gun reality and documentaries.
When Panasonic or Sony get off their fat duffs and offer a “Redlike” camera with real ergonomics, different lens mount options and a simpler post path, the world will beat a path to their doors and I’ll be in the front of the line yelling gimme!
Until then, I’m just another curmudgeon tilting the windmills here on the Cow.
J Cummings
Cameralogic/Chicago
cameralogic.tv
HDX-900/HDW-730S/DXC-D50 -
John,
Yes, RED is the wrong camera for most of my clients as well. I get the shallow depth of field with my HDX900 by using my Letus Ultimate and B4 Pro 2/3″ relay lens with Nikon, Canon or PL-mount Cine lenses.
I think Panasonic should have shown an empty box at NAB with their logo and a 35mm lens mounted to it, “Price to be Determined”, “Delivery to be Determined”, just to give potential RED camera buyers pause.
Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
http://www.ssv.com -
So doesnt the Sony PDW800 now look to be the camera of choice for doc/run and gun/current affair/news.. and archive is already there ..DVD better than tape..
Iam an HDX900 owner and love the beast,wish I had bought it earlier.. ofcourse tape is on the way out but lets face it P2 just isnt any good for doc work… its not going to happen.. and RED even less so.
Maybe the markets will fracture.. but all the BBC/Natgeo/History channel/Discovery stuff that keeps shoes on my kids feet.will be fine with PDW800..Iam not biased to Sony or Pana.. I have the HDX900 and trusty Digibeta 790… but for doc work the XDCAM 800 looks like a winner to me..
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up