[James Dubendorf]

Ok, may have found it- when I change the sequence of the fx chain on the video track effects, it changes this behavior.

If the levels effects come after that composite effect in the chain, it alters all events on the lower tracks as well. Did not know that!

James

[James Dubendorf]

Mike,

I thought that as well, but all my tracks are set to source alpha, and no parent/child relationships! Struggling to diagnose this- in the past, I’ve never seen this behavior, and really don’t know how I couldn’t have seen it if it has been there before.

Not sure where else to look…

Thanks,
James

[James Dubendorf]

John,

Yes, I suppose the only way Vegas sees a connection between any video and audio event is because they are made a group by default when dropped onto the timeline. Nothing at the track level whatsoever. I will just keep audio tracks below my video tracks, and make do. For the most part, I am not actually using much of the audio, so I can mute the track, collapse its height, and continue on.

Thanks all for the help.

James

[James Dubendorf]

Thanks to Mike and John for the replies. John, I am surprised Sony does not see this as a problem. With many tracks, and many events, it ends up wasting precious time, and can create confusion!

Ah well…

James

[James Dubendorf]

Matt,

Thanks for your input. The video does have some velocity changes in it, but not that particular clip. Also, it was set on smart resample. When I view frame by frame on the vegas timeline, there is obvious doubling of the moving elements i.e. the chairlift armbar. Not a lot of blurring, however- the doubled parts of the image are both fairly crisp and distinct from one another. This makes me wonder whether a slower shutter speed might improve things, lose some clarity but gain some smoothness?

I know of Twixtor, but have not used it. Do you think this clip slowed down slightly, and processed through Twixtor, might improve in quality? Can Twixtor improve the quality of clips playing at their normal rate?

Many thanks,
James

[James Dubendorf]

Mike,

I certainly can. The video is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic44eC5wSe8

and I would say the most obvious issues are exemplified by the clip from 1:16 to 1:22.

Again, I don’t see what I understand to be interlacing artifacts per se (horizontal lines, mice teeth, etc.)- just occasional hitches in the movement of the chair that are obvious and might be otherwise invisible except for its absolutely constant rate of motion across the screen.

Should I consider shooting in progressive for these kinds of images? Altering shutter speed? I’m ready to try anything!

Many thanks for your thoughts.

James

[James Dubendorf]

A few more thoughts. Is this the dreaded “jello effect,” caused by object movement rather than camera movement? If so, is there a way I could have manipulated a variable like shutter speed- can having too fast a shutter speed, for example in bright light, make the effect worse?

Thanks,
James

[James Dubendorf]

As the instigator of that thread, I can say that thanks to John’s help, I’m no longer going color crazy, but am still slightly…color disoriented? Color suspicious? Anyway, the adventure continues!

James

PS A belated thanks to John for his help. Other obligations prevented me from thanking him properly.

[James Dubendorf]

John,

I had read Glenn’s post before, but for some reason it is only now coming together for me.

His post is largely in agreement with this one, though they approach from different directions:

https://techblog.cineform.com/?p=2959

Let’s assume avchd footage from the canon vixia hfg10 is native YUV. According to this post, these files will indeed contain values below 16 and above 235, but black is at 16 and white at 235. When these files are converted to rgb (i.e. windows media player), they are supposed to be converted 16 to 0 and 235 to 255. The values outside the legal range are discarded, BUT this has no effect on the image itself. This makes intuitive sense to my experience. I drop an avchd clip into the vegas timeline, or a neoscene avi of the same file (YUV 4:2:2 encoded format). Apply broadcast color lenient -7.5. The histogram confirms the illegal edges are clipped, but I notice NO CHANGE in the image in the preview window.

Again, according to the cineform blog post, if the video is to be accurately viewed in the vegas preview window on a computer monitor for the purposes of levels and color correction, it must be converted from studio to computer rgb. Glenn does not mention this option specifically, but does acknowledge the need for it. You must remember to turn this off before the render.

So…

Applying broadcast colors to avchd or avi files in preview and render: fine, probably helpful.

Converting those files computer to studio rgb for render or preview: bad.

Converting those files studio to computer rgb for rendering to formats like quicktime: good.

Converting those files from studio to computer for color and levels correction in the preview window but NOT render: good for most things like dvd, bluray, most streaming video, etc.

Converting still images, text, computer generated backgrounds, etc. from computer to studio rgb in this workflow: good.

So, after all my torment, I think I just repeated what you said!

Thanks again, John. I think I am starting to understand this stuff. Famous last words…

James

[James Dubendorf]

Kristopher,

You may be interested in this thread.

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/942083#942083

I’ve been investigating these same questions. The safe answer for dvd, bluray, and broadcast is to always render in studio color space rgb 16-235. For web, the answer seems to be…it depends, and in some cases the only way to know for sure is to try both.

Hope this helps.

James