[H.w. Kenty]

Hi John,

After talking to the dub house, I’ve worked it out. From them: “The movie uses the “Uncompressed” codec inside a Quicktime wrapper… It’s not necessary to have FCP, Avid, or Adobe software for playback, but one does need the uncompressed codec.”

They were able to send me a component file, “FCP Uncompressed 422.component,” which is placed in the /Library/Quicktime folder on your Mac, after which Quicktime, iMovie, and the like can read both video and audio. So oddly enough, it is in fact both uncompressed and uses a codec. As far as I can tell, there does not seem to be a corresponding Windows component to allow one to read these files on a PC (the FCP component is something that is installed automatically with Final Cut Pro), so I’m just converting here to a high-res format I can use on the PC side for editing. I’m set now, thanks for your advice!

Best,
Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

Hi John,

Thanks for the quick reply. Regarding the uncompressed vs codec thing, that’s pretty much what I figured. What’s odd is that neither Quicktime on the PC or the Mac will even open the file at all; on the PC side, I immediately get an error message telling me that it’s not a format that Quicktime understands, and on the Mac side, I get that plus a link telling me I may need to install more software, and we’re off to the Final Cut Pro website. So I can’t check the codec in either place, unfortunately, or in any other program.

I’ll have to check with the dub house, but does this sound like behavior that would occur with an uncompressed file, or with a file compressed with a codec that I don’t have installed?

Thanks,
Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info! Hmm… So perhaps I should backtrack and ask a different question regarding my source material. I’m starting with 25 fps progressive scan MPEGS from a PAL DVD that need to be burned to NTSC format DVD. Given that, would you recommend rendering 24p progressive scan MPEGS, or 29.97 fps interlaced MPEGS? The material certainly seems to look clearer and nicer when rendered as 24p progressive scan, but I’ve heard that the conversion from 25 fps to 24p might cause more motion-type artifacts than going from 25 to 29.97 fps, so perhaps it’s a trade off. If I do end up using 24p for the DVD, I assume I would want to (have to?) choose 2-3 pulldown?

Thanks for the help, I’m learning a lot through the process!

Best,
Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

Awesome, thanks for the link. I’ll give it a try!

[H.w. Kenty]

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for the info. Do you know if this also applies to other DVD quality files that were not necessarily made using the same compressor? IE, how much degradation occurs when recompressing any given DVD quality file to DVD quality?

Just adding it in DVD Architect would be an OK idea, except for the fact that I need to be able to go back and forth in the chapters from any given point, using the chapter buttons. In my experience, when you add a second video to a first, if you’re at a playback point in the second, you can’t get back to the first using the chapter buttons. Unless there is a setting or something that I could change to make that happen?

Thanks for the help!
Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

Wow. Bitjazz tech support replied back that they’ve replicated my problem, and are working on it.

Odd that no one’s come across it before with this plugin, but I’m glad they’re seeing exactly what I’m seeing. More likely they’ll make a fix, crossing the fingers!

Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

Howdy again, everyone-

Unfortunately, there are a number of annoyances that are somewhat out of my control. I’m really an audio guy, and do quite well with that. A client who I’ve worked on audio projects for a number of years with has started moving into some video, and having a bit of video editing experience, I’ve been able to keep up. It’s always been relatively uncomplicated stuff, typically just creating DVDs for backgrounds during live performances, run from his laptop. This project has ended up bigger than was initially planned, and the client’s manager has requested I get a trailer to iTunes. The distribution company the manager uses works with a different company who formats all of their released video material to deliver to iTunes. Thus far, I have not been able to communicate with the latter company directly, which it’s becoming very likely I will have to do Monday morning.

Anyhow, what follows is a bit long, but I think it clarifies any ambiguities about my situation. The above-mentioned video formatting company will accept video in ONLY the following formats, with extra surcharges for anything that doesn’t meet these exact requirements:

Tape:
Beta SP / Digi Beta / DVCAm

OR broadcast quality digital files –
NTSC: 720×486, 29.97 fps, PAL: 720×576, 25 fps

Option 1: MPEG-2
Program Stream (.mpg), MP@ML or 422P@ML
Video: Bitrate minimum 8Mb/sec, Up to 50 Mb/sec
Audio: Stereo 48Khz sample rate, MPEG Layer II sample rate 384Kb/sec preferred
-or- Uncompressed PCM, 16/20/24 bit

Option 2: QuickTime
Video: Bitjazz Sheer Y’CbCr 10bv (preferred) https://www.bitjazz.com
Blackmagic 10 bit (acceptable) https://www.blackmagic-design.net
Apple DV25 (acceptable)
Audio: Stereo 48Khz sample rate

Given that I have no tape machine nor access to one, a digital file is my only option. And with the general concensus on the forum that a 720×486 MPEG file is pretty much never heard of, Quicktime does seem the best option. Hence, my purchase of the Quicktime codec they specifically recommend, SheerVideo, which is available for a relatively low cost.

So, some more details about the current situation:
– Project is set to 720×486, 29.97 fps, etc – any applicable export settings duplicated in the project settings, basically. I’m able to export a working 720×486 AVI file just fine.
– SheerVideo codec is installed on my machine, but I’m unable to render at 720×486 with it. I encounter problems every time at that resolution. SheerVideo at 720×480 exports without a hitch, and other Quicktime encoders work at 720×486 without a hitch, across the board in all programs.
– I’ve attempted my SheerVideo 720×486 exports with, variously, the original Vegas project file, a Vegas-exported AVI brought back into a new Vegas project, a Vegas-exported AVI brought into SONAR, and a Vegas-exported AVI brought into some older versions of Premiere and After Effects. All of these generated either an error message, a crash, or just hang the computer. (Same behavior on two different computer systems in all programs, and same results when using a totally different Vegas project.)
– As I mentioned earlier, I also tried bringing my AVI into Quicktime Pro to export with SheerVideo, but have been seeing weird behavior with how Quicktime reads the audio portion of AVI files. It seems to be that at any file size greater than 2GB (my AVI is 13GB, and I tested with a number of other differently sized renders), Quicktime thinks the file doesn’t contain any audio. I’m quite sure this is a Quicktime problem, and updating to the latest version does not correct it. Not that Quicktime would even necessarily be able to successfully use an encoder that has failed in numerous other programs, but just another option tried and excluded.

So the upshot of all of this is that I need to hear back from SheerVideo’s technical support, since there does seem to be a legitimate SheerVideo problem, given that other Quicktime codecs are working fine at 720×486 in numerous programs. Douglas, as the only person here who has actually used SheerVideo, do you have any suggestions or ideas about what might be going wrong?

Whew! Thanks for sticking it out, fellows! If you think of anything, give a holler, and I’ll let you know if anything turns up on my end. Would that I could just give them my 720×486 AVI or Sorensen 3 Quicktime! For now, I’m going to stop banging my head against the wall and work on something else.

Thanks!
Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

Wowza, the problems just keep coming. Steve and John, you guys have been incredibly helpful thus far, thanks so much. I’ll certainly understand if you need to move forward with some folks with other issues. If you’re willing to stick with me for a bit, here’s a longer one…

Haven’t heard back from the client thus far on the MPEG codec they use, but it sounded like Quicktime would be a better format anyway. I don’t know whether anyone has any experience with this codec or not, but one of their preferred Quicktime codecs is the SheerVideo codec, which I’ve downloaded and am trying to use. However, trying to export from Vegas to MOV with SheerVideo at 720×486 gives me another error message:

An error occurred while creating the media file [filename].
An error occurred while converting with a codec.

Now, I can export MOVs at 720×486 using other codecs successfully (Indeo, Sorenson Video 3, etc). Figuring that perhaps I could create an AVI from Vegas and convert it using the SheerVideo codec in another program, I did successfully export a 720×486 uncompressed AVI. This is where the troubles move out of Vegas territory, so feel free to stop here if you want.

If you’re still with me, I opened the AVI in Quicktime Pro, and tried to export an MOV. The weird part here (and this is pretty surely an Apple problem) is that the “Sound” option is entirely grayed out – no way to even export audio, though I’ve verified it does exist in the file, and tried AVIs at various bit depths with the same results. Using the SheerVideo codec, I can successfully convert the AVI to a 720×486 MOV without an audio track from Quicktime, but it’s little good without the audio.

Here’s the weirder part – the file I really need to create as an MOV is about 5 min 30 sec. From Vegas, I exported a few :02 AVI tests to try converting with Quicktime, and with THESE examples, in the export dialog in Quicktime the “Sound” option IS available. The resulting MOV exports (Sheer at 720×486 works successfully) do indeed have sound. As both my :02 tests and my 5:30 file were exported from Vegas using the exact same settings, I’m a bit baffled by why Quicktime likes the shorter ones and doesn’t like the longer one. I assume that once it’s an exported AVI, any potentially problematic content that might be occurring later in the timeline has been changed from its previous form into AVI format.

Sorry for the long post, I’m just feeling thwarted at every turn. As a last ditch effort, I’ve tried bringing my 720×486 AVI into some older versions of Adobe Premiere and After Effects to export to MOV, and it just crashes those programs pretty much straight away. Every option seems fraught with some minor difficulty that prevents it from working. But what can you do? I’ve written to BitJazz, Sheer’s creator, we’ll see what they can offer. I’m guessing they’ll say that since it works in Quicktime with small files, it’s a problem with Vegas.

Anyhoo! Any advice you can give would be so greatly appreciated. I’m really an audio guy, and video somehow always seems to give me a crazy headache.

Best,
Howie Kenty

[H.w. Kenty]

Hm – client is a bit unhelpful, this is what I received as a response to my inquiries:
“NTSC: 720×486, 29.97 fps is correct and we make this encode everyday. If he’s having problem I suggest delivering on tape (always preferred)”

No tape machine handy, unfortunately! These are the original specifications:

NTSC: 720×486, 29.97 fps, PAL: 720×576, 25 fps
Option 1: MPEG-2
Program Stream (.mpg), MP@ML or 422P@ML
Video: Bitrate minimum 8Mb/sec, Up to 50 Mb/sec
Audio: Stereo 48Khz sample rate, MPEG Layer II sample rate 384Kb/sec preferred
-or- Uncompressed PCM, 16/20/24 bit

Now, they have another Quicktime option that I think will work for me, but this issue is still bugging me. I’m wondering what gives here- how can they be asking for a standard that’s incompatible with the file format? More likely I’m missing something!

Thanks,
Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

I see! I’ll check with the client and see if they actually meant 720×480, or at least whether an MPEG at that resolution will work for them. Thanks for the tips, guys!

Howie