Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720×486

[John Rofrano]

I would ask the client what MPEG2 encoder has given them 720×486 in the past because I believe that it is an invalid resolution for MPEG2. Some encoders are resolution independent (like HuffYUV) but others like DV and MPEG2 only support specific resolutions.

If you think about how MPEG2 works, it compresses “blocks” of pixels therefore by definition it cannot support a resolution that wouldn’t produce a complete block of pixels.

Are you sure they didn’t say 496? That would be valid.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Steve Rhoden]

Sorry, mpeg2 for DVD can only be rendered at 720×480.
You will get an error using 720×486 no matter what setting you try.

Steve Rhoden
Creative Director
TNX EFFECTS STUDIOS.

[H.w. Kenty]

I see! I’ll check with the client and see if they actually meant 720×480, or at least whether an MPEG at that resolution will work for them. Thanks for the tips, guys!

Howie

[H.w. Kenty]

Hm – client is a bit unhelpful, this is what I received as a response to my inquiries:
“NTSC: 720×486, 29.97 fps is correct and we make this encode everyday. If he’s having problem I suggest delivering on tape (always preferred)”

No tape machine handy, unfortunately! These are the original specifications:

NTSC: 720×486, 29.97 fps, PAL: 720×576, 25 fps
Option 1: MPEG-2
Program Stream (.mpg), MP@ML or 422P@ML
Video: Bitrate minimum 8Mb/sec, Up to 50 Mb/sec
Audio: Stereo 48Khz sample rate, MPEG Layer II sample rate 384Kb/sec preferred
-or- Uncompressed PCM, 16/20/24 bit

Now, they have another Quicktime option that I think will work for me, but this issue is still bugging me. I’m wondering what gives here- how can they be asking for a standard that’s incompatible with the file format? More likely I’m missing something!

Thanks,
Howie

[John Rofrano]

NTSC: 720×486, 29.97 fps is commonly referred to as NTSC D1 as opposed to 720×480 which is NTSC DV. So the resolution is fine for AVI files… I’ve just never seen it used for MPEG2 files.

> …and we make this encode everyday.

So… what do they use to make this encode to MPEG2 every day? I would not be afraid to say that your MPEG2 encoder doesn’t support this resolution so if they could tell you what they use you will try that.

Quicktime may be your best bet.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Steve Rhoden]

I agree with John,
This format of NTSC:720×486:29.97fps is referring to AVI format.
Seems odd on their request.
Solution: Give them their desired request in the Quicktime
format..you won’t experience any hiccups with this format.

Steve Rhoden
Creative Director
TNX EFFECTS STUDIOS.

[H.w. Kenty]

Wowza, the problems just keep coming. Steve and John, you guys have been incredibly helpful thus far, thanks so much. I’ll certainly understand if you need to move forward with some folks with other issues. If you’re willing to stick with me for a bit, here’s a longer one…

Haven’t heard back from the client thus far on the MPEG codec they use, but it sounded like Quicktime would be a better format anyway. I don’t know whether anyone has any experience with this codec or not, but one of their preferred Quicktime codecs is the SheerVideo codec, which I’ve downloaded and am trying to use. However, trying to export from Vegas to MOV with SheerVideo at 720×486 gives me another error message:

An error occurred while creating the media file [filename].
An error occurred while converting with a codec.

Now, I can export MOVs at 720×486 using other codecs successfully (Indeo, Sorenson Video 3, etc). Figuring that perhaps I could create an AVI from Vegas and convert it using the SheerVideo codec in another program, I did successfully export a 720×486 uncompressed AVI. This is where the troubles move out of Vegas territory, so feel free to stop here if you want.

If you’re still with me, I opened the AVI in Quicktime Pro, and tried to export an MOV. The weird part here (and this is pretty surely an Apple problem) is that the “Sound” option is entirely grayed out – no way to even export audio, though I’ve verified it does exist in the file, and tried AVIs at various bit depths with the same results. Using the SheerVideo codec, I can successfully convert the AVI to a 720×486 MOV without an audio track from Quicktime, but it’s little good without the audio.

Here’s the weirder part – the file I really need to create as an MOV is about 5 min 30 sec. From Vegas, I exported a few :02 AVI tests to try converting with Quicktime, and with THESE examples, in the export dialog in Quicktime the “Sound” option IS available. The resulting MOV exports (Sheer at 720×486 works successfully) do indeed have sound. As both my :02 tests and my 5:30 file were exported from Vegas using the exact same settings, I’m a bit baffled by why Quicktime likes the shorter ones and doesn’t like the longer one. I assume that once it’s an exported AVI, any potentially problematic content that might be occurring later in the timeline has been changed from its previous form into AVI format.

Sorry for the long post, I’m just feeling thwarted at every turn. As a last ditch effort, I’ve tried bringing my 720×486 AVI into some older versions of Adobe Premiere and After Effects to export to MOV, and it just crashes those programs pretty much straight away. Every option seems fraught with some minor difficulty that prevents it from working. But what can you do? I’ve written to BitJazz, Sheer’s creator, we’ll see what they can offer. I’m guessing they’ll say that since it works in Quicktime with small files, it’s a problem with Vegas.

Anyhoo! Any advice you can give would be so greatly appreciated. I’m really an audio guy, and video somehow always seems to give me a crazy headache.

Best,
Howie Kenty

[John Rofrano]

We’re still with ya’ Howie! 😀

Not sure why you chose to download and use the SheerVideo codec but unless your client told you to, chances are they don’t have this codec and won’t be able to read your file when they get it.

Stick with one of the standard Quicktime codecs. Sorenson Video 3 is the de’facto standard Quicktime codec that all Quicktime users will have this. You can render to it right from Vegas. Use the Frame size template NTSC Standard (720×486) and set the Quality to 100%. You could also use the Motion JPEG codec.

BTW, do you have your project set to 720×486? If not, you will get slight black bars on the sides of the video when you render it. If you shot 720×480 DV you need to crop to the D1 frame size. Personally I like to work in the same resolution as my output format. I would set your project to the NTSC Standard (720×486, 29.970 fps) just so there are no surprises.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Steve Rhoden]

Yep…still here,
Man, your clients are really putting you thru the hoops….just when
i think you are good to go with your quicktime render and collect your
cheque. They want it using the sheerVideo codec?…sheerVideo? that is a bit #@x!?#@…..let me not say.

Its a versatile codec, but I have never used it before and never will.
So i cannot give you any pointers where this format is concerned.
But as John pointed out to you, the ‘sorenson video 3’ is the best
format and all who use quicktime will have.

Uncompressed, photo-jpeg, Sorenson or motion-jpeg formats are all professional delivery mediums.

Steve Rhoden
Creative Director
TNX EFFECTS STUDIOS.

[Douglas Spotted eagle]

They want it using the sheerVideo codec?…sheerVideo? that is a bit #@x!?#@…..let me not say.

Its a versatile codec, but I have never used it before and never will.
So i cannot give you any pointers where this format is concerned.
But as John pointed out to you, the ‘sorenson video 3’ is the best
format and all who use quicktime will have.

Sheervideo/Bitjazz is a TERRIFIC codec, very common in many professional post-house workflows, and is an excellent codec. Very solid, very smooth.
I’d gladly debate the merits of Sorenson 3 vs other web-based codecs in today’s landscape. Sorenson had the world by the tail…and they’ve clearly lost that hold over the past 2 years, IMO. Still good, but not as common as your post might suggest, and certainly not the best.

Quicktime is just a package. think of it like a brown bag that can hold many items. Quicktime is a package that assures that their player will play the codec that you’ve used to create your video.
I’d find out from the client exactly why they’re asking for what they want, as thre is no 720×486 standard. Sounds like they’re mixing metaphors. Specifically, why Sheer, if they’re taking an MPEG from you?? Sheer isn’t a delivery codec, it’s a post codec.
Sounds like a lot of questions weren’t asked/answered when the job was taken. That’s a rough place to be.
It also sounds like they’re getting advice from a less-than-knowledgeable third party.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST

Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor