Herb Sevush
22
COW Coins
20
Premiere Pro Coins
Forum Replies Created
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ASKED –
“[Bill Davis] “The thing is, nobody’s saying that tracks have NO advantages. . ”
[Herb Sevush]”No, somebody was.”
[Robin S. Kurz] Really? Who exactly? Sure would love to see that quote. Oddly I’ve gone through the entire thread and can’t see that anyone ever did.”
AND ANSWERED.
“[Herb Sevush] “but to believe there are no trade-offs is just silly.”
[Robin S. Kurz] Silly is to suggest that there are any …”
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Bill Davis] “The thing is, nobody’s saying that tracks have NO advantages. . “
No, somebody was.
[Bill Davis] “But you also have to see now that there are increasing numbers of guys who have lived with Tracks for the bulk of their careers, who’ve now gone “trackless” via X and honestly feel that instead of losing capabilities – they’ve actually gained new capabilities worth far more than what they’ve lost. “
I agree with this statement without reservations.
Gaining more than you’ve lost is the point of this whole discussion and everyone should evaluate their workflow to see which NLE gains them the most and loses them the least, but to believe there are no trade-offs is just silly.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Bill Davis] “Roles has both organizational and “reporting” functions.”
That was very clear and concise, and it also matches what I understood before. I have only 2 points to make about roles – They are not automatic as some time must be spent assigning clips to their roles and also that using a timeline index is not as instantaneous as merely looking at a tracked timeline. I understand that time spent assigning roles can pay dividends in many ways and also that using the timeline index is not laborious, however to deny that tracks have any organizational advantages whatsoever seems a bit extreme.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] “clips can be optionally shown by their assigned roles in the timeline, if they actually knew what they were talking about and not just arguing without rhyme nor reason.”
Pardon my ignorance, I know I’m not supposed to ask questions because I’ve never used X, but didn’t you previously state that you only used roles for export?
“I don’t in fact give a hoot which role any audio has until maybe EXPORT.”
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/78456
If so, then how could it help you during the actual edit?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] ” Have I ever edited on Movie Maker. No, you’re right, I haven’t. Mea culpa. I was talking about those on the Mac for one, and also any that are “relevant” or were considered to be at some point.”
Ahh, only Mac NLE’s. So in your world everything is just apples to oranges.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] “Only, thanks to things such as elaborate filtering, tagging, a timeline index etc. etc. etc., those moments are extremely short lived.”
So apparently X is now capable of filtering, tagging, and assigning roles automatically, taking no time whatsoever. I must have missed that update. Or did you mean that once you spent the time necessary on the front end things went smoothly. But of course that’s time that need not be spent at all on other systems, so maybe the speed you talk of isn’t as speedy as it sounds.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Exponentially shorter than with any other NLE I have ever used. And yes, I’ve used them all at some point or another during the last 20+ years, thank you.”
Even you can’t possibly expect anyone to take that statement seriously, can you. I doubt you could name 20 of the fifty or so NLEs of the past 20+ years let alone have used them. But lets assume you meant to say you have used many of the major NLEs of the past 20 years. How is it faster to know what’s on a trackless track where you have to highlight individual roles or look at index’s then it is to know what’s on a timeline with dedicated tracks where you know what something is merely by it’s position?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] ” To think that some are literally still having to do the exact same timeline Tango with the most current version of their NLE. Unless there were some MAJOR changes in other NLEs that I missed?”
No, I don’t think you’ve missed anything, although Ppro, unlike FCP7, does allow you to swap/move groups of clips, but you would still have to move some things around to match the demo example. So yes, you’ve now made the entire case for the magnetic timeline — it is clearly superior to any other NLE for this type of operation.
Which has been acknowledged since the first Demo at NAB.
The argument has never been whether the MagTimeline was better at this, since it clearly is, the argument has been – but at what cost?
How often during your week do you swap this sort of complex collection of clips vs how often do you look at that undifferentiated mass of clips trying to figure out what is where? Is the time saving (which this demo pushed to it’s furthest limits) in swapping worth the time lost to confusion. If the way you organize your work leads to a Yes to that question, then FCPX is clearly for you. However the opposite holds true as well. There is no free lunch and choice of NLE is based on individual workflow.
[Robin S. Kurz] ” And the same people make sure to never miss a beat when it comes time to tell everyone what a massive f***-up the magnetic timeline is, how Apple betrayed them, yadda yadda yadda… ;)”
The Apple betrayal has nothing to do with the magnetic timeline, it has to do with the sudden EOL of FCP7 etc., etc …
Which is a discussion about marketing and business practices, much like the discussion about Adobe’s total switch to subscriptions. While both discussions involve the underlying software, they are not really about them.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] “Right. Because the one opinion that suits your argument is the only possible valid one and the measure for all others after that. Got it.”
Robin, when you pin your argument on the line “never once” and somebody shows you the once, you can either acknowledge your overstatement while defending your basic argument, or you can act like a Fox news anchor.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Bill Davis] “Thanks so much for acknowledging me as the sole and leading authority on how X operates”
The quote I was responding to was –
“I, too, have never once heard anything else either.”So I was presenting you as the antithesis of “never once” as I do consider you a “once in a while.”
[Bill Davis] “That said, I seriously doubt I ever used the term “benighted” – since the word kinda bugs me.”
You got me there, I was exaggerating for effect.
[Bill Davis] “But basically, it’s nice to know I matter.”
Your welcome.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[tony west] “Any of you guys know Janusz Kaminsky?”
My post had nothing to say about hiring unknowns. As I had posted elsewhere on this thread, everyone has to start somewhere. What I was commenting on was the idea that knowledge of a particular tool, in this case a video camera, trumps talent and experience. When I was switching over from 16mm film to shooting Betacam we chose to work with the great film DPs and figured they would get the most out of the video tools they were given. We were rewarded for that decision. It takes decades to master lighting, movement and framing; it takes a few days to figure out the video side of things.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf