[Herb Sevush]

[Andy Field] “If you liked FCP 7…you will love Premiere Pro CC — everything that didn’t work quite right in CS6 is fixed in this release. Yes FCP X users, please hold off on the flames…this isn’t a slam on that program (we use it for it’s terrific multicam when that comes up)”

For someone who cuts multicam all the time this, more than the hated subscription, is the deal breaker. It’s amazing how Adobe can be blind to certain things – it took them almost 8 years to get stereo vs mono audio done correctly and they still can’t seem to figure out multicam, even though proper models abound (Avid, FCP7, FCPX). As much as I would like to use PPro for so many reasons, Adobe keeps finding ways to shut me out.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

Tim – having studied all the Stones album covers like they were the dead sea scrolls 40 years ago, I do know who Andrew Loog Oldham is, although I admit to knowing nothing about him other than that he was the Stones manager and producer when they started.

I missed the whole controversy over the Verve song, although to me it’s a clear case of plagiarism, so i don’t get what’s controversial, other than in the modern “free” world of the internet where everything is supposed to be free and the concept of intellectual property rights is an evil, in and of itself.

Thanks for pointing me to the original album. It’s quirky and nicely done – although I probably would have hated it at the time. The only orchestral strings I ever liked on a Stones song was Paul Buckmaster’s great scoring for Moonlight Mile. Along with all of Procol Harum’s orchestral work, it is to me the best use of strings in a rock setting.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Chris Harlan] “Good discussion, though.”

Except for the part where they get the whole “saving to CS6” feature wrong, intimating that it works for more than AE. This is how the misinformation begins.

and also the fact that they sound like Adobe salespeople.

other than that, good discussion.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “Herb, don’t I recall that you’re the guy who was all bent out of shape because it took TWO separate keystroke operations rather than one – for some X operations? Or was that someone else?”

Someone else.

[Bill Davis] “so it’s pretty amazing that when a competing program requires one to LEAVE the timeline entirely and go back to the desktop to accomplish something like sharing that even MSWord does from within the program – that should suddenly be considered “no big deal.””

Well I think I should apologize here Bill. If your workflow has you doing this multiple times a day, every day, then I guess the time savings would be significant. I only export and upload a few times a week, so I was being myopic.

On the other hand your constant use of phrases like “connected” and “disconnected files” leads most folks to think that X has some metadata connection to the posted output file – something like the dynamic link between PPro and AE, or the way an updated Motion file gets reflected in a Legacy timeline, when no such thing is going on. Your file output is no more connected in X than in Legacy, there is no automatic feedback between the posted file and your NLE, there is no ongoing metadata exchange, there is the simple ease of posting from within X, and if you described it that way you would get less negativity.

But your right, a time saving is nothing to sneeze at.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Walter Soyka] “Bill, can you walk me through how this works and what you mean by “connected to an on-line output file?””

Walter –

You seem to be under the impression that there is something more than a simple one-button “publish to vimeo” button at work here, but there isn’t. There is no magical metadata connection. Whatever Bill’s doing can be done by anyone with any NLE, by exporting a file to their desktop and then posting to vimeo – X let’s Bill do that in one step instead of two and apparently it makes his day. Go figure.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[alban egger] “Sorry, but that is EXACTLY the strength of X.”

I agree it is a strength until such time that a paying job requires what Apple tossed out, and then it’s a weakness. Throwing out a lot of stuff from my storage area to make room is a strength until the IRS calls and asks me about some old quarterly forms, and then it doesn’t seem so smart. I prefer the Adobe and Avid way, where they can deliver anything that X can deliver while not throwing away past workflows. If you never need those workflows, then I understand why you don’t care.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Steve Connor] “I know, lot’s of learning required to find the “Import FCPXML” and “Export OMF” menu items, apparently Ripple training are going to make a series of tutorials”

Well if it’s that simple, then I stand corrected. OMF export is now solved for $199, when it happens.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Steve Connor] “Logic Pro X will soon perform this function for considerably less, it will give you AAF as well so you won’t need X2Pro.”

All right so now we’re down to $199 plus the need to learn a whole new software package just to get an OMF out. Plus there’s that other issue …

[Steve Connor] “At least it will when xml export from FCPX works correctly!”

couldn’t have said it any better myself.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “OK, here you go. Both AVOID and PPro can’t “satisfy” my now required “deliverable” of a NLE that leaves your work connected to an on-line output file so I don’t have to waste endless time doing “work-arounds” in order to refresh a public copy of a newly produced video directly from the NLE – when the client suddenly discovers that they want tweaks and changes two days after they told me that the deliverable was “perfect” and exactly what they were hoping for.”

You’ll notice I specified “deliverable” because that is what we get paid for. I specifically eliminated both tools and work process’s from my description, because that’s purely the editors preference, and wile you make more money the faster you work, your clients generally don’t understand or cares about your tools, only what you can deliver.

You of course have come back with a tool. The uploaded web file is the deliverable, not the one-button upload that you so love. For any non X editor no third party software beyond a browser is required to upload a file, although obviously you find the process onerous. This goes back to your statement that every NLE has something that others lack; obviously you love this something in X and if it fits your workflow I don’t blame you. But I don’t have to own and pay for another NLE to upload my files, which is what is required for exporting OMFs from X, along with third party conversion software to get X to talk to Legacy.

So lets add this up – all other NLEs lack the magic button so it costs the owner roughly two minutes of time and no money to match your one button deliverable. X lacks OMF export so it costs about $1000 in extra software, depending on FCP Legacy pricing, plus a sh*tload of time to translate to X and repair the files. Yes, a perfect equivalence.

Apple decided to ignore many conventional workflows in it’s desire to streamline it’s code. That decision is premature for many editors. No amount of hyperventilating on your part can change that simple truth. In a few years time it won’t matter, those workflows will eventually be dead, but for right now, it is what it is.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Marcus Moore] “I wish we could get away from this “listening to editors” circular logic in reference to X.

You can’t get feedback from users to create something which doesn’t exist yet.”

That was not the case here. It has been established that Apple previewed X to some experienced editors, whose negative feedback went unheeded. Companies do user testing all the time on new products, especially new categories of products. The idea that Apple was creating something so new that they couldn’t get feedback on it is simply false. What is true is that Apple as a company doesn’t seek outside feedback as a philosophy, a philosophy which has worked for them up till now. Whether that winning streak continues, and whether X is part of that streak or marks the end of it is what this forum is all about.

[Marcus Moore] “But in refining FCPX thru 9 updates over the past 2 years, has the dev team listened to people who’ve used the software, and updated it to make it better for editors. Absolutely. Everything they’ve added back has made it a better, more professional Final Cut Pro X.”

Remember the white paper they released right after the X-bomb broke, the one that detailed the list of features that they were going to add and the timetable that went with it. While I give Kudos to Apple for keeping their promises it is obvious that they made that list without getting feedback from anyone. In other words most of the upgrades were pre-determined before they ever released X, with the release being a sort of Alpha version. Multicam, XML – none of it came from user feedback. I realize that they have responded to certain complaints, like for non-disappearing in and out points, but I think it’s fair to say that up to this point most of the upgrades have been either bug and stability fixes, or features they realized needed to be put back in before release. This is not what I think of as listening to feedback.

[Marcus Moore] “I know for a fact that I have reaped enormous rewards from FCPX in terms of my productivity and profitability. Right now the tool set encompasses my needs, but not everyones. I feel pretty confident that as the feature-set grows and deepens, the core strengths of the software will apply to more and more workflows.”

I have no argument with anything you say here. I am eagerly awaiting the next big release to see which way they intend to grow the software. I’m glad it works for you and have no doubt that it works for many. Given that it does have the best multi-cam feature on the market it would not shock me to find myself switching to it in the coming year, depending on how things progress.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf