[Herb Sevush]

[Atilio Menéndez] “in Legacy it isn’t exactly a one-step process either, since you have to set the appropriate Auto Select tracks previously. No such thing in X.”

Only if you need to change them. Most of the time my default targets work just fine. i.e., in a situation where I’m going thru a show and constantly dropping in room tone on track 1 I never have to change the targets.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

I’m sorry if I got it wrong but I had assumed, since no one challenged it, that this quote was accurate

i was trying to say i want to simply “cut a piece of room tone directly into the audio of an interview clip, thereby in effect “embedding it”, directly in my main timeline, without clicking into another timeline, or opening as timeline, or making a compound clip, or “detaching’ the audio. A more complicated way of saying, i want to alter the audio “track” as if it lived in a “track”, which in the main storyline it doesn’t, unless you of course “detach” it… My way of saying, the functionality of the main storyline is strange and requires odd workarounds compared to treating all “tracks” or “layers” or “lanes” as equals. Thats what i want! Equality for all clips!… X unfortunately forces a hierarchy.

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/69569

So either you can directly insert audio, like room tone, directly into the primary storyline with one click, which any other NLE can do, or it’s a multi-step process – which one is it?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Charlie Austin] “Start at 10.0.4 or 5, that should be about 2 years.”

When I look at the history of FCPX upgrades I notice two things –

That Apple met the deadlines they gave themselves in the “white paper” they put out that first summer, listing all the features they promised they were putting back after the cries of anguish which greeted the original roll-out.

And that there hasn’t been many big changes that weren’t on that white paper. PIOPs and the change to the Library structure are the only ones I am aware of. I understand that changing the data base structure to accomplish the later is a major task, still, to an outsider it seems the pace of upgrades have slowed considerably.

Take the idea of expanding the potential of roles – this has been asked for and discussed for well over 2 years, but as far as I can tell Apple hasn’t changed a thing there. Or bringing back “send to motion,” another often requested feature by X users that still hasn’t made an appearance yet.

Does this concern you at all?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Atilio Menéndez] “When I read such comments or “That’s how I’ve made my audio editing in FCP X much easier, I’ve stopped using music and EFX””

that was said as a joke, it was not meant to be taken literally.

i hope.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Mathieu Ghekiere] “In that sense that if you would start from a blank slate, would all the track-based NLE’s with their terminology (sync-indicators, bins, subclips, patching, clip colissions, etc etc) not also also have their own terminology?”

I agree that non-linear editing is a complex task and all software will reflect that with arcane terminology suited to describing this complexity. However this thread was narrowly focused on audio editing. My own sub-thread contributions are narrowly focused on audio insert editing. My point to you is that the magnetic timeline specifically has more complex terminology than traditional timelines because it has a more complex tool set than traditional NLEs in order to meet it’s unique design goals. I don’t doubt that you find this to your advantage in your style of editing, I don’t doubt that many here will agree with you, I’m not arguing better or worse, I’m just stating what is to me an obvious fact.

The other point I was trying to make earlier with Jeremy is that the designers of X did not have audio insert editing in mind when they designed X. The fact that there are so many ways to achieve the same results is an argument for the richness of the X tool set, but when it takes a number of steps to achieve something so basic, then you are obviously “working around” the designer’s intents.

A comparative in PPro – multicam in PPro does not allow you to do audio only edits from any camera angle and channel you wish. There are many options to do many things, but none match the criteria I just layed out. However I can make it happen by using other methods, some of which go outside the multicam mode. This is a work-around. It works because PPro has a rich tool set, but it wasn’t designed to work this way.

Sometimes the work-arounds provide benefits far beyond the traditional way of doing things, sometimes they are compromises, but it’s fairly obvious when you’re working around the designer’s intentions and when you are not.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Mathieu Ghekiere] ” a lot of this sometimes seems convoluted, and one of the reasons is that it uses a lot of new terminology.”

Apple has greatly increased the number of specialized tools needed to work in a timeline in order to achieve their NLE design goals and the terminology simply reflects that. X doesn’t have tracks, and to replace that single item you have primaries, secondaries, clip connections, roles, position tools … again, horses for courses, for the many who continue to use it this is a good thing, but the reason X sounds so complex is because, compared to traditional NLEs, it is.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeremy Garchow] “We will never agree.”

Oh don’t be so downhearted. We might agree. Sometime. On something. Once or twice even.

[Jeremy Garchow] “You are adding an audio clip to the timeline, I am adding a audio + video (or just audio) clip to the timeline. “

I’m doing an insert edit. One of the most basic elements of editing, the name comes from the on-line linear days it’s so old and basic. Any NLE can do it, including X from what I understand. I’m betting that if I looked in the X PDF manual “insert edit” will be listed as a feature.

You are having to create a match, then do an edit, then move something under the primary, if I get your description right. I’m sure it’s very quick when you get used to it, but it’s not basic to X, it’s not a single keystroke sort of thing, there’s no shortcut key for it, I doubt that it is even described in the PDF manual. It is the very definition of a “work-around.”

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

I don’t doubt that you find this a great way to do your work, but for an “outsider” here’s the thing – you’ve just mentioned connected clips, primaries, expanded clips, comps and secondaries – all to describe something that in any other NLE is done without any of them. I’ll take your word for it that it’s fast and efficient, but if it takes that long just to describe it, I’ll stick to clips and tracks.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Shift-f to match frame, q to add as connected, drag it underneath the primary and use it as an audio clip.”

As opposed to doing an audio overwrite edit in any other nle. yes, i can see how that’s a great leap forward.

nobody said there weren’t workarounds, just that for something this basic you shouldn’t need a workaround.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Charlie Austin] “I worry about things going out of sync as much as anyone. In X, I just make sure the connections are in the right place and forget about it. “

OK, that sounds reasonable. So first you disconnect it, then you make sure the connections are in the right place to keep it in sync, then what if you want to move it out of sync for some reason – disconnect it again I guess — then what if later you want to have part of that clip back in sync with video again ??

I’m not being facetious here, I go through this workflow dozens of times a week, audio being in sync, then covering it with B-roll, then changing later to having some of it still be in sync to video as I break up the B-roll as I refine the edit, and all of this with the ability to do audio only overwrites at any point – the idea of doing that without sync indicators “seems” insane, but then again I’m willing to learn a better way, I’m just not willing to learn a purely different way without it being a better way.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf