George Strother
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Jeremy
Unfortunately it won’t come out of HDV without carrying this problem with it.
Btw, I wasn’t saying AJA can’t solve the problem. They just don’t have an answer yet.
George
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This was shot on a JVC HD100U in true progressive. The camera has progressive chips and records in real progressive frames, though 720p30 is nominal. The correct frame rate is actually 720p29.97. No pull down involved on this according to JVC.
Were you seeing these artifacts on an interlaced CRT monitor? Did you find the stair step/jaggie went away on pause and came back on play?
George
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The Wratten 47B will work with your XBR. The FCP bars have the targets you want.
Here are the instructions again, with illustrations.
https://www.jkor.com/peter/monitor.html
Can you get your XBR to look great? Probably.
Can you get an XBR to be absolutely, certifiably correct? Probably not.
Sony and others make some really expensive specialialized monitors for that. Consumer stuff probably won’t reach that last 5% of perfect.
George
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New firmware update for the HD200/250 is supposed to “reduce” the problem for 5.1.2 through 6. HD100/110 firmware is not released yet.
George
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Chroma gain, maybe. Phase, not a chance.
George
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Jeremy
All of this is visible on an interlace CRT broadcast SD monitor. Much of it doesn’t show on a progressive computer diplay.
It’s definately more coarse than regular interlace, by about twice. Though it is the same sort of pattern, the interlace is fatter and seems to be phase reversed from normal interlace. It isn’t a field dominance issue.
The HDV (or every other) sequence tested is progressive. The error seems to be in the HDV codec conversion to SD component BetaCamSP, even if the HDV codec has been transcoded to another codec.
For animation I can eliminate this artifact by creating a fresh animation on an uncompressed Kona 720p59.94, DVCPro HD 720p60 or DVCPro HD 720p30 sequence.
A reference movie from an HDV 720p30 or AIC HDV 720p30 sequence with the test animation will carry the error forward to any of the “better” codecs.
720p30 or 720p24 clips from a JVC HD100 or HD250 always have this wierd interlace bug on transcode to SD BetaCamSP no mater how they are captured.
So it is following the HDV compression.
AJA support hasn’t been able to figure it out yet. I am hoping someone on this board has seen this and knows what is wrong.
This is from my original post that didn’t get any response –
I am having trouble down converting HD to SD Component (Beta) through a Kona LH.
Down conversion looks coarsely serrated on objects moving cross screen and diagonals are jaggy when playing but smooth out when paused.
It’s just the opposite of watching normal interlaced SD that shows the interlaced fields when paused, smooth when playing.
Sources have been HDV 720p30 captured from firewire as HDV and AIC, captured from component as uncompressed Kona 720p59.94, DVCPro HD 720p60 and DVCPro HD 720p30.
SDI Out 1 set to whichever format the test clip was captured.
SDI Out 2 set to 525i29.97/crop to Ensemble Serial Box 1 to Sony PVM1344Q component monitor.
Analog Out set to Secondary 525i29.97/Component (Beta) to PVM1344Q.
All results are identical.
George
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Except this one looks this way in motion then gets smooth when the video pauses. Regular interlace is less coarse and works the other way, smooth in motion, serrated when paused.
The serration artifacts are seen on an NTSC monitor and on BetaCamSP tape when doing downconversion.
George
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Oops. Scrambled the title pretty good on the first try.
George
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Are you getting dropped frame error messages?
Are you watching an external HD monitor or are you watching canvas/viewer/digital cinema desk top preview?
George
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The OS/FCP test was just those apps on a new drive, nothing else, no other software, no other drivers. It was only to test for just what you are talking about. No joy.
The skipping is first on DCDP and viewer/canvas, then on web/lan compressions. Output to tape or HD monitor is outside of the path to Compressor, so not really related unless I go with a realtime hardware compression system. Too many $$. Cheaper to dump HDV and buy a real HD camera, if those will work.
It’s very unlikely the problem is my system. I have had the exact same results with capture, playback and compression on 3 new MacPro 3.0 FCP systems, 1 with Apple 23″, 1 With Apple 30″ and 1 with Dell 24″. Two systems were in Apple stores, one was a local producer. Also duplicated the results on a G5 Quad with Apple 23″ that belonged to a local FCP trainer. All scenes skip in the same places on all systems. Even new footage shot at their location skips when captured there and skips in the same spots when recaptured here. None could figure it out. I have tested with four different JVC ProHD cameras. When I post this on the JVC HD forums, no one has these problems. All who reply say their computer screens play back fine.
I have been told by many that their systems have no problems and by others that it isn’t possible and no computer monitor can play video smoothly due to the refresh rate conflict. I’m just trying to find out how to get out of the second group into the first group. Of course you can buy an MXO and hook it to an Apple 23″ to get smooth playback, at least according to their ad copy, but that’s still outside of the path to sofware compression, so no help.
So I either have a problem that doesn’t exist unless I am in the room or a universal problem on all computers that can’t be fixed on any system, depending on who I ask.
But then, lots of download and steaming files out there work fine, so … I must be missing something. The end issue is just getting compressed files that play smoothly. To get those I think I need to get timeline files that play smoothly in viewer/canvas.
George
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