[George Dean]

Carlos,

With the consideration render time is not an issue, these are the render formats available in Vegas Pro 15 that will produce an AVC/h.264 in an mp4 wrapper, if I’m mistaken….

MAGIX AVC
MainConcept AVC (legacy*)
Sony AVC
Intel HEVC (depending on your GPU h.264/h.265)
Sony XAVC S (MPEG-2)
HOS x264 (add-on **)

I think Intel HEVC in h.265 to be the best for high quality and small file size, if your GPU supports it and if your device will play it. Mine will not, so I don’t have that option. It is the latest released and becoming popular, but not al devices have caught up to it.

MAGIX AVC is available as Mainconcept and depending on your GPU one of three GPU assisted render templates, AMD VCE, Intel QSV, or Nvidia NVENC. Either of these 3 options should reduce render times. I have the AMD VCE option and render times are 3 times faster than the MAGIX AVC?AAC Mainconcept. There may some quality loss with GPU assisted rendering, but not for all, it depends!!

MainConcept AVC?AAC is what is referred to as a legacy format. It’s not the highest quality, or the smallest file size, nor is it the fastest to render. There are better options and that is why MAGIX hid it and we refer to it as legacy. * It is available (see below) for those who still prefer the support.

Sony AVC is reportedly a better quality than the MAGIX AVC.

Sony EAVC S is wrapped in an mp4 container, but is MPEG-2 HD, an old standby as in (DVD), so I wouldn’t consider it, but is is available.

HOS x264 is an render option available using the (HOS) Happy Otter Scripts utility (currently free in beta) available at ‘tools4vegas.com’.

In my limited test of 1080p HD, using the Render Quality Metrics comparison tool, I found the HOS x264 (default settings) to be the best quality (MSE=1.093), followed by MAGIX AVC Mainconcept CBR (MSE=1.614), then MAGIX AVC VBR (MSE=1.738), legacy MainConcept AVC (MSE=1.813), MAGIX AVC AMD VCE (MSE=1.979), and last Sony AVC (MSE=2.096). Note: the lower number MSE value equals better quality when compared to the original source.

However, we need to keep in mind that with most codec, if you increase the bit rate, you will increase the quality at the cost of a larger file size and render time. So any of these listed could have an equal (or close to equal) quality if files size is not considered.

* To reveal the legacy MainConcept AVC/AAC render format and templates Go ‘Options’, hold down the ‘Shift’ key while you left click on ‘Preferences’. This will reveal the ‘Internal’ tab. Click on the Internal tab, at the bottom in the search cox type ‘main’. This will list ‘Enable Mainconcept Render plugin’. Change the ‘Value’ from ‘FALSE’ to ‘TRUE’, click on ‘Apply’, click on ‘OK’. Now the legacy MainConcept AVC/AAC render format/templates are available.

** HOS Happy Otter Scripts is an add-on to Vegas Pro and works within Vegas running various scripts and other tools. It is a front end interface. I use the ‘Render+’ feature to render in x264.

Also go ‘Option’ > ‘Preferences’ General tab and check the box ‘Allow Legacy GPU rendering’, this may show additional options in the SonyAVC and MainConcept AVC formats.

Hope this helps…..

NOTE: I encourage anymore with corrections to post and I will attempt to correct this post. Thank You.

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

Hi Aiki,

Like at the Vegas Creative Software Forum, best to convert you source file using Handbrake or MediaER Tool Kit to a constant frame rate. Vegas Pro 13 should then like that.

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

Carlos @ “Hi George,

Me again.

To what can I render my final project that is similar in size to the original mp4 I imported to Vegas?

1) What format?

2) What template?

The file type seems to be mov only. Will the file be large?

The original file is 5.5Gb.

Thanks,

Carlos”

Then Francois replied asking what your delivery purpose was, then you replied…..

Carlos @ “Hi François,

The final format will be an mkv file 1080p 23.976fps

That I will copy to a DVD as a video file. So the size can’t exceed 8Gb.

Thanks,

Carlos”

Now I confused, as it appears you already know what you want, which is an .mkv file and copy that to a DVD disc. Are you using the DVD disc as storage media to play the .mkv file from, or are you using the .mkv file to burn a DVD format production onto the DVD, to then play in a DVD player?

Vegas Pro doesn’t support the .mkv wrapper. Are you asking what render format/template would be best to then use something like Handbrake to encode to maybe vp8 and wrap it in .mkv?

Can you once again ask your question, perhaps in a different manner, because I’m lost as exactly what you are asking or expecting as an answer?

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

Hi Eric,

Could you post some snapshots of one of your projects with a sample. That would be a snapshot of the last frame of a clip and the first frame of the next clip, where you are not getting a satisfactory transition. Just so we can see the difference in the scene, action, contents, color, grade, etc. Maybe we can get a better idea of your issue and make a suggestion.

Another option would be to upload a short segment, perhaps 2-3 minutes, to Youtube with examples of your cuts, transitions, etc for which you are not happy with.

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

Very good write up Graham.

Eric @ “I currently use dissolve/fade in vegas pro but whether I select 1.00, or .20 or .12 it’s either jerky or I see the dissolve.”

Because of this line I felt Eric was referring to a transition effect applied and I think others did as well with their initial replies such as “And after render?“.

Nonetheless, your points should be well taken and part of editing 101, as well as, the DP delivering the shots necessary dependent on the story line.

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

Hi Jb,

If I understand you correctly,

Click on the Fx icon above the Preview Window, this will set an Fx project wide. Select the ‘Levels’ Fx. You should have a few presets including the ‘Default’. Select the ‘Studio RGB to Computer RGB’ and notice the change in the Preview Window. Now select the ‘Computer RGB to Studio RGB’ and notice the change in the Preview monitor. Finally select the ‘Default’ again and notice the difference.

Render out a short 2-3 second clip using each of those Levels to compare on your computer players and TV’s.

Of course you also can compare the other Levels presets of brightness and gammas. There should be a Levels preset which will match better in your player and TV devices.

BTW: for this test is is best if you turn off all other brightness and color adjustments you may have made. This test is just to compare the original to the results. Once you get the Levels preset you like to duplicate the original in your play devices, then you can make to that whatever color correction or grading you want for your project.

You most likely will never get a perfect match between what you see your original as to what you see in your render between the computer players and your TV’s from what you see in the Vegas Preview, but you should be able to close enough for taste.

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

From the NEON sign scene to the Filmnation logo, that is a hard cut out of NEON to a blank fade in to Filmnation. The same transition is used going from Filmnation to Hammer (title), hard cut from Filmnation to black fade in to Hammer. And again from the Hammer title to the first scene of driving/road in the winter.

For the next 7 scenes they are all hard cuts, no transitions, up the the car pulling up to the lodge. I think this is what you are referring to a seamless. From the car pulling up to lodge scene to the women walking away using two sticks, that is a fade out to black , then fade in from black transition. I did watch it any further.

So in the 7 scenes of the actors at the beginning those are just hard cuts, no transitions whatsoever. However what may make it appear to be seamless is the color grading match of all the scenes.

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

Hi Eric,

With no disrespect intended, first a clarification, I’m neither a millennial, a gamer, or a geek. I’ve actually been around a long time, longer than I ever felt possible, and perhaps that is my problem, because I have never heard off, used, or seen a transition I couldn’t see, or cannot tell is there!

So, I suppose I’m missing something! I’ve seen dissolves, fades, flips, wraps, warps, particles, wipes, and some other flippy do things, and all of them I can see going from one scene to the other. But I have never not seen a transition. I sure would like to see one though!

Now that I have had my fun, any dissolves or fades I have used in Vegas and other NLE’s are seamless compared to a jump cut or hard cut. They may not be when previewing during NLE playback, but all look good after rendering. Or, they look good when using Dynamic RAM preview and prerendering.

If you are talking about the difference between a not so smooth playback in Vegas as compared to the smooth play when viewing a render, then that probably is an issue with the horsepower of your CPU/GPU used.

Am I way off in understanding your issue?

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

I would tend to agree with you, it’s your work style. Early on in this discussion you stated that sometimes it crashes in a minute or later. If that is the same large project I would understand, but if you start a new project, and you get the same crash results early on, it would not indicate Vegas is being overloaded at that point.

That was the difference between your results and mine. I have the same CPU as you do with more RAM. Writing and saving snapshots and printing thumbnails in a smaller projects is instant, so there is very little if anything I can get done while the snapshot thumbnail is being painted and my system does not repaint the thumbnails in the timeline. Although I would like to reproduce your symptoms, No time to build a huge project like you indicate you have with so many snapshots. I’m assuming your friend has the same workflow as you do.

So, what is you wait until the thumbnails are painted, does it crash then?

The biggest difference in our systems is your GPU. I’m running an AMD R9 390. That should have little to do with the difference between your results and mine, but I could be very wrong.

Later this week I may have time to feed several hundred stills into a test project and perform snapshot test. But I just don’t have the time to actually take 500 snapshots within a project for a test.

I’m concerned about the difference we have that my Vegas does not repaint the timeline thumbnails when taking a snapshot, but yours does. That is puzzling!

Best Regards……George

[George Dean]

Francois @ “I found that Version 7.6.8 worked fine with Vegas Pro V10 and above. I vaguely remember that above versions were problematic.”

Nice add

+1

Best Regards……George