[Gary Lieberman]

Francois! You solved The Challange! I’ve been looking for a solution since March. Tried everything. Seems that the there once was an Aja IO installed and then it was replaced by a Blackmagick. However, the codecs were still in the folder. I removed the AJA files and viola! the my round trips from FCP to AE and back are perfect!

Thanks again.

Gary Lieberman
Editsuite.com

>Spoke to one of the very helpful guys at AJA and he suggested removing >a codec that installs with the A Io control panel. root/ library/ >Quicktime/ AJAUncompressed

>Francois

>- e y e f l a m e .tv –< >https://eyeflame.tv

[Gary Lieberman]

Mathew,

Thanks for the tip. Fascinating discovery! Unfortunately, we have a Blackmagic IO. Still, you’ve got me thinking that I might try moving some codecs Blackmagic installed and get them out of the way. I’ll start with your suggestion of checking root/library/Quicktime/ and see what I find.

Since issuing THE CHALLANGE a few month past, I’ve made one discovery, that is, I can’t even “round trip” a clip from a sequence using the Apple Pro Res HQ 720p codec. My work-a-round has been to export from FCP using “custom” and then choosing “Animation” as the codec.

Can’t wait to try your tip. Will get back to you with my results. I wonder why removing AJAUncompressed, a codec that was not in use, worked to solve the challenge.

Gary

[Gary Lieberman]

Ok, look, I think I’m just trying to do something simple and common, but it’s broken. So what say we get together right here and solve this problem, once and for all, for everyone.

THE CHALLENGE: Getting DVCProHD video exported from Final Cut Pro, into After Effects, and then back into Final Cut Pro without shifting color or gamma.

THE PROBLEM: Apple and Adobe interpret Gamma differently when using the DVCProHD codec. Each use their own version of a DVCProHD codec.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS: Use the same 3rd party codec in both software packages (FCP and AE).

CURRENT WORKAROUND: Export from FCP using Animation Codec (found under “other”), but it’s slow, buggy and the files are huge.

MY QUESTIONS: How would one implement a 3rd party solution which really works with current releases of Final Cut Pro and After Effects. Has anyone solved this problem? What are the details of a solution. Is there any test signal anyone can point to that might help us measure the solution? And finally, why isn’t this problem front page news?

[Gary Lieberman]

Chris Wright writes: “just install pro codec”

Anybody know what”pro codec” is? It does seem to me that AE interprets gamma incorrectly from outputted FCP DVCproHD files. My work-a-round is to export from FCP using animation codec. Somehow I tend to frequently lose a frame of video on the round trip (and I mean wrong frame rates).

[Gary Lieberman]

Still disappointed in doing a round trip from FCP to AE and back again. Seems like it should be easy, but as all have noted, there is a gamma/color shift.

I’m hoping that someone can shed some light on this issue, so here’s what I’ve learned:

I feel like I’ve isolated the problem as to the way AE interprets a file exported with the DVCPROHD codec (601 as well) from FCP.

For instance, if I have a 601 clip on the hardrive and take it into FCP and export it with current settings (on a 601 timeline), I can then import 2 clips into AE and make a comparison. The two clips are the original 601 clip and the same clip exported from FCP. You would think they would be identical and looking at them in Quicktime Pro, they look the same. However, in AE, there is a notable gamma difference, and I can find no interpretation setting or project setting that makes them look the same.

One other discovery. If I take a clip out of FCP using an Animation codec (select ‘other’ from the export menu), although my files are huge and it takes an impractical amount of time to export, the round trip is “matchframe” perfect, even if I export the clip from AE using a 601 or DVCPROHD codec.

In summary, a problem is introduced when exporting a clip from Final Cut using a codec and importing that clip into After Effects.

Can anyone tell me if they can repeat my experience or if they can make the round trip cleanly?

One other clue. I’m using a duel quad core mac and I suspect it may be contributing to the problem, as I get level shifts inside my renders when multiprocessing is enabled.

My desired workflow is to use a DVCPROHD timeline and edit shots on Final Cut; Export clips or a series of clips from FCP to AE; Combine Photoshop elements composed in DVCPROHD resolution (pixel size) with FCP exports and render using DVCPROHD codec; import AE compositions back to FCP and place them back on the DVCPROHD timeline. Sound straight-forward?

As an example (hoping to show that you cannot just go back to the original footage and bring it into AE), say I have 3-five second clips pulled from an existing 30 minute show and I want to do a couple of 60 frame transitions. I have marked in and out on each clip and set them up with long dissolves as a rough cut for the client to review. I now want to change the dissolves to stylized AE transitions, using a logo graphic as a transition element. Ok, all I need to do is to export the two-60 frame “subclips” for each transition, bring them into AE, create the transition and export them back to Final Cut. But alas, there are level shifts, making the workflow unusable.

Use an Animation codec, you say, when exporting from FCP, that will work. Sure, but now what if I’m editing a presentation shot in green screen and have to export all the clips. It’s impractical.

Any helpful, tested (not theoretical) ideas would be greatly appreciated. To the others who have posted on this thread, I share you pain.

Gary Lieberman
Editsuite.com

[Gary Lieberman]

I too got the level shift on renders and solved the problem by turning off multiprocessor support. Would be interested in finding a solution. I’m wondering if the level shift is related to the gamma/color shift I get when trying to do a round trip from FCP to AE and back again, using DVCPROHD. What a nightmare.

[Gary Lieberman]

Here’s an update on the FCP/AE DVCPROHD Roundtrip issue. After some time on the phone with the nice folks at Adobe Tech Support, I’m asked to suspect the way Apple and Adobe interpret the DVCPROHD codec.

So, when I export a clip from FCP to AE using DVCPROHD, AE shifts the color and gamma (color bar vectors no longer hit the boxes). However, when I output a clip using the Animation Codec, AE sees it fine. I then output the composited clip from AE back to FCP using the DVCPROHD codec, and FCP sees it fine. Of course, exporting using the Animation codec takes forever, so that’s not an acceptable solution.

So I asked Adobe, assuming I “pre-convert” all my footage, what HD format (codec) should I use that both Apple FCP and Adobe AE/PS can agree on? I didn’t get an acceptable answer.

Can anyone suggest a workflow that doesn’t involve learning Premier?

Thanks!

[Gary Lieberman]

Here are the details of my workflow and the Color/Gamma Shift issue of “Round-tripping” from FCP to AE and back again using the DVCPROHD codec throughout . Let’s say I’m laying out my DVCPROHD clip in FCP, sending a foreground and background clip to AE. Using Keylight to do the keying and adding addition shadows and such. Here are my steps:

FCP: Created DVCPROHD sequence and editd DVCPROHD photoshop elements to track 1 and DVCPROHD green screen shots to track 2.
Outputted a quicktime of the green screen clip (made movie self contained, otherwise AE crashed on render). Disabled track 2 and outputted a quicktime of background element.

AE: Created a DVCPROHD sequence and composited both clips using Keylight. Already, I can see the clip has shifted in color! Rendered an output using the DVCPROHD quicktime codec.

FCP: Inported composited clip in FCP and noted the Color and Gamma difference.

Hope someone can help!

[Gary Lieberman]

I’m having the same problem. Final Cut to After Effects and back with a color shift, making my on-camera look blue. I’m blue, too.