Gabe Strong
Forum Replies Created
-
[Andy Field] “What is the incentive to constantly improve its product if everyone says – “Gee – your 5 versions ago software is fine – i’ll pass.” They quickly go out of business. Apple gives you a dirt cheep editor in order to sell more macs…if you buy it once – they’re done with your software business…so instead they keep improving their hardware – faster, better etc..in fact they change the operating software so eventually your “older, it’s just fine NLE doesn’t work so well, or at all in the future…and you see value so you upgrade the computer. Or you stay with an older computer and software that doesn’t play well with new video formats. Your choice.
“Well….I’m using a 2009 Mac Pro to edit with the latest version of FCP X and it
works just fine. Plays with all new video formats and does so even faster than CC.
So not really sure about that argument. If Apple had made it impossible for the older
computers to use the new version of FCP X, I’d say you had a pretty valid point, but
that is certainly not the case.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Michael Gissing] “Gabe at no stage would I miss the obvious point that spending any money on something that doesn’t pay for itself is bad business. I went freelance in 1981 and am still successfully running my business. But your example wasn’t making that point at all.
I presume it was designed to imply that people are paying for something demonstrably useless and that is not the case for many industry professionals when it comes to Adobe software. I call that BS.
“As we say up in Alaska
“I’m not really concerned with what they are doing ‘down south.’People have said over and over, that there is ‘something wrong’ with
your business model if you ‘can’t afford’ CC…to the point of me being pretty
sick of that stupid argument. Others tell me how ‘it’s less than your morning
coffee’ (which is wrong by the way because I don’t drink coffee) or similar
arguments. I say there is something wrong with your business model if you pay
“for things that you don’t need. I need to edit together video, create motion
graphics, add VO’s, music and the other things that constitute a complete video.
There is no requirement I use something that anyone deems as ‘industry standard’.
FCP X is every bit as fast as CC, if not faster, so it’s not going to ‘save me time’
by using CC. I’ve been running my business for 15 years, not
as long as you, but I am the only person in my entire market that runs a full
time video business. Anyways, basically you shouldn’t read too much into it,
my example was exactly what it said…..I (notice emphasis on ‘I’) could ‘afford’ to pay a witch doctor
$50 a month to shake a bone rattle over my head…..but I’m going to passFor you guys that make more money somehow off using CC, go fot i! I totally
understand! All it would do for me (and plenty of other small time video companies)
is cost me money. It’s not any faster to edit a promo video in CC than it is in FCP X….
not technically that is. A person may be more ‘adept’ at editing one way or another,
but even then….I was a speed demon in FCP 7 and switched the keyboard shortcuts
in CS 6 to the FCP 7 ones, and it is still faster for me to edit in FCP X even though
I am not that good in it. And before you say it, I tried the CC free trial. It’s fine, I have
no problems with it, but I’m not going to pay $50 a month for who knows how long,
if it’s not somehow doing something for me. There needs to be an actual reason for
me to use CC, not just because someone tells me that ‘many industry professionals use
it.’ So you can call B.S. all you want, but you’ll have to forgive me if I ignore it as
another person from a big city that doesn’t understand.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Michael Gissing] “Just as well Adobe isn’t selling a service that has no evidence of working. What I don’t understand is most people are happy with subscription services in many areas like telephony, Internet ISPs etc but baulk on creative software.
When I need to upgrade from CS6 to CC I will do it because I can afford it when I need those tools and that is all that is on offer. At the moment I don’t but when I do I will pay just like I do for so many other services in life. I would dearly like to buy a liftime’s garbage collection but the bloody council insist I pay quarterly subscriptions called rates for such services.
“I think a basic point may have been missed. The basic point is that
it’s not about what I can ‘afford’. I have grown more than tired of
people making comments like‘If you can’t afford to pay $50 a month, there is something
wrong with your business model.”B.S. I know plenty about business and running one. I even own another
business besides my video production business…..part of a national franchise
chain.. One of the first things, I know, is that you don’t spend money on unnecessary
expenses. Radio people try to get my other business to spend ‘only $200 a month’ on
radio spots….even though radio spots have been shown in our market to give you a
hot cup of jack squat in return. Why would I waste the money that way? So while there
are a lot of things I could ‘afford’ to spend my money on, I don’t spend money on
things for my business unless they actually can help me make money. And people
telling me things like‘your business model must suck if you can’t afford $50 a month’
are totally missing the point. Sure I could ‘afford’ it. But using Adobe doesn’t make
me anymore money than using FCPX, Compressor, Motion, and Resolve. Which cost
less than a year’s worth of using CC. Why the heck would I spend money on CC
when it just would cost me money but add nothing to my business?
I totally understand for some people CC works well. I don’t tell people‘You are wasting money on CC’
because they may be working as part of a team or for an agency that requires
them to use the latest version of CC, or something similar. If it works for your business
model and makes you more money, go crazy. For a small video production house that
does end to end stuff and has no need to collaborate with others (like me) it is just
a big waste of capital.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
Well….I could ‘afford’ to pay an African witch doctor $50 a month
to shake a bone rattle over my head to drive out the evil
spirits that hinder my business too….but I think I’ll pass.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
I’m with you John. Not a fan of the ‘subscription’ only approach. I have found the same
alternatives as you, although I’d add Resolve 12 to the mix, as well as my old
versions of CS6 if needed. If it works for someone, knock yourself out,
I sure am not going to support the ‘software as a subscription’ thing….Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
Here is some interesting reading on that very subject
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/5-1-cmp-still-best-mac-for-running-bmd-resolve.1910685/
Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
It’s actually a pretty good editor. One drawback is that it needs a pretty beefy GPU (but I have
one so it works great for me). Other drawbacks are its current lack of very many transitions
and effects. Also it has very basic titling abilities. However, it seems that BMD is committed
to making it into a good editor, and I would not at all be surprised to see it develop into
something better by next year. And it’s already pretty good.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
Bill
Thanks for the info, that makes sense, I guess since SSD drives are so fast,
as long as you have room it could work all on one drive. That is actually good
to know and exactly what I was wondering about. And as built in SSD drives get
bigger, this should get even better. Right now I’m mainly working on an old
2009 Mac Pro which has been majorly upgraded to a six core 3.46ghz with
a GTX 980 Ti (6GB) GPU…..and FCP X is pretty fast on it. But I may need to look
at getting a newer laptop for mobile editing as well.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
Bill,
I’m just wondering about 1 thing. When editing on a laptop, how do
you separate the OS drive from media drive? Most people I know
(and myself) do this with an external drive as the media drive. Which
works fine when I’m at a table or desk, but if I’m going to be at a desk,
I might as well just be in my normal edit bay with my desktop.
If I’m editing while kicking back on the couch, or on the road on a hotel bed
or in an airplane, the external drive tends to want to come loose if
I move, and that short little cord connecting it just can drive me crazy.
Is there a better way?Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Tim Wilson] “I know you’re not saying that the “Adobe rental” has been around for six years…but at the current rate:
$49 x 72 months = $3240
That’s assuming you didn’t just go for Photoshop ($9.99) and After Effects ($19.99 — what? The price is DOWN from its former $29/mo. The price is going DOWN, just like every other software, everywhere, from every vendor, all the time) for $28.88 x 72 months = $2079.36
vs
Master Collection CS 5 (2010, but close enough) $2599 + 1 upgrade (CS6 upgrade) @$699 = $3298
Hmmm…
So can we at least please please PLEASE agree that 6 years of Adobe rental is LESS than buying one box plus one upgrade in the same 6 years? BECAUSE IT’S LESS.
But let’s keep going.
Final Cut Studio 5 (also 2010): $1299 + the same 2 upgrades I assumed for CS @$299 (which is $598) = $1897.
But really, looking at Creative COW, it seems that most FCS users upgraded to 6 and 7 as well, so 4 x $299 = $1196, then add $1299 for the first purchase, and you’d have spent $2495.
Oops, plus $399.97 for FCPX, Motion, and Compressor, for a total of $2894.
So, yes, in round numbers, you saved $300-ish going Apple vs. Adobe. This is real money, but not enough to buy a Mac Pro…
…unless you’d have rented just Photoshop and After Effects, in which case you’d have spent as much as $800 MORE by going the Apple route.
STILL IRRELEVANT.
“First, when I talked about saving money, I was talking FCP X vs. CC, but I’ll go
back to that later. Even assuming I WAS comparing CC to the former CS suite,
you are making a TON of assumptions in your example! About how often I might be upgrading
for example. The fact that I am using a 2009 computer may give you a hint about my usual
attitude towards our ‘consumer driven’ culture of ‘always upgrading’, and ‘making sure you
have the latest version of the iPhone’. I also own a 20 year old car with a couple hundred
thousand miles on it. And I recently upgraded cameras from a PD150 to a FS700.
I’m saying this to point out, sure, in your specific example, with the specific
set of facts you are throwing out there,’CC’ may be cheaper but if it were REALLY
the case that ‘CC’ is ‘cheaper’ than the old way, why would Adobe have switched?
No, the real reason they switched is that there is a whole ‘nother set of facts out there.
Facts like people like me don’t give them enough money because we skip years and years
between upgrades. Mainly because I don’t need every new little bell and whistle like
‘Morph cut’ or ‘3D text’. I wait for upgrades that I actually need. Sometimes that takes
awhile. Adobe would rather I don’t ‘sit’ on that money, so they changed their way of doing
business. Now I either keep paying and hope their upgrades are ‘worth it’ or I move on to
someone else. Fair enough, I can understand that I am no longer their ‘target customer’.[Tim Wilson] “So, let’s sweep all this palaver off the table, and what have we got?
— That if you’d been “renting” the full boat of Adobe software for 6 years, you’d have paid LESS than if you bought 1 CS box plus 1 upgrade.
PAID LESS FOR RENTAL.
AND….any savings by going all-Apple vs. full Adobe would be wiped out by the Mac tax….
AND….there’s a pretty big swing in Adobe’s favor if you’re just renting PS + AE.
…and really, being really honest (HEY DENNIS LOOK OVER THERE) that APPEARS to be what most people here have been working with.
And yet…
THIS IS ALL RIDICULOUS. Buy whatever the hell you want. Don’t buy whatever the hell you want.
Just please don’t wave your hand over either the overwhelming expense of Adobe rental or the overwhelming savings of Apple stuff, because in more circumstances than not, it’s just not true.
“
Ah yes….now on to the Apple vs. Adobe cost (More expensive Apple computer and cheaper software vs.
cheaper PC and paying subscription every month), I know for a fact I have saved money,
How? One of my clients I do consulting for, hired me to spec them a PC for editing on Adobe,
(Ordered from Jeff Pulera at Safe Harbor and components recommended by him) then they
hired me to put it together in their edit bay for them, and then later install Adobe CC products on it for them
(They are not terribly computer savvy which is why they hired me). Also I’m sorry, but
‘just Photoshop and AE’ isn’t going to cut it when you actually have to….you know….edit video, so
they had to go with the more expensive option once CC came along. You want me to throw out numbers?
I can do that too. I paid $2000 for my 2009 Mac Pro from the Apple Store. They paid $1788 for their
PC, also in 2009. (I’m not counting my fee in this.). So with my specific set of facts, there was an
‘Apple tax’ of $222.
I’m basically breaking even with them at the end of 1 year of them having CC and me having
FCP X. Every year after that I’m saving money. I’m $1200 ‘to the good’ right now. That is ‘Real math’.
You seem to not like Apple and the decisions they have made with their editing software very much.
That’s understandable.I didn’t like it either. As a matter of fact, I disliked it so much, I bought a 2nd
hand version of Adobe CS6. Then the CC dropped and Adobe lost me as a customer as quickly
as they had stolen me from FCP 7 (which I upgraded to from FCP4). But there are ‘facts’ and there
are ‘facts’. Don’t make the mistake of assuming your facts are the same as everyone else’s.
Some people may save money with a PC and CC…..but there sure are a lot of possibilities
when you go with a PC. Some cheap. Others expensive. Some people who upgrade every
version or two may save or break even just on the software. Some people only need
Photoshop. But there are so many possible permutations of computers, software, and
needs of an editor that you saying:Just please don’t wave your hand over either the overwhelming expense of Adobe rental or
the overwhelming savings of Apple stuff, because in more circumstances than not, it’s just not true.seems, dare I say it, a bit presumptuous?
$400 for FCP X, Motion and Compressor? $600 a year for CC? $200 savings the first year and
$600 every year after that? Hmmm, I dunno, I guess it depends on your definition of ‘overwhelming savings’.[Tim Wilson] “Oh wait, I forgot. You bought a Mac Pro. If you’d bought an HP, okay, about the same price. But if you’d have bought a Dell (maybe not great advice in 2009, but I’m genuinely impressed with them now), you’d have saved the very real Mac Tax — potentially wiping out EVERY DIME of savings vs. your all-Apple scenario!!!!
I of course concede that the Dell can’t run FCPX, but you and David were talking about the Mac tax, so let’s talk about the Mac Tax. You simply can’t make the case that Mac + Apple software costs less than Windows computer + Adobe software.
This is true both because of the very real Mac tax, and because you haven’t done the actual math on how much you’ll spend over a given span with Adobe software.
“Actually, I HAVE done the math. It’s pretty simple actually. I need to edit video, so I can’t get by
with just ‘Photoshop and AE’. So I’d be paying $50 per month for CC. $600 per year. Which means
I am spending $200 more to go Adobe and PC the first year and $600 per year afterwards.
I am currently using as my main edit computer, a Mac from 2009. If I was to use my next Mac for
as long as I have used this one….it would be six years of service. And over that six years, I would save enough money to MORE than make up for any ‘Mac tax’.[Tim Wilson] “”Saving” by not spending means that if you’d dropped cable and gone to Netflix, you could have saved $7129 ($99*72). More than enough to buy 2 systems.
Or you could have sold one car to buy a cheaper one…or moved back in with your parents…or not have gone to college.
But money not spent is not the same as money saved. By not buying a Tesla, I COULD have put down a down-payment on a million dollar oceanfront condo, but in fact, I haven’t put enough money in my pocket to buy a box of Goobers, much less a Mac Pro.
Oh wait, I forgot. You bought a Mac Pro. If you’d bought an HP, okay, about the same price. But if you’d have bought a Dell (maybe not great advice in 2009, but I’m genuinely impressed with them now), you’d have saved the very real Mac Tax — potentially wiping out EVERY DIME of savings vs. your all-Apple scenario!!!!”
As for ‘money not spent’ vs. ‘money saved’ it seems you are missing my point. I’m not
talking about fictional choices like buying a Tesla or an oceanfront condo when you
don’t have the money for either. I’m talking about real choices…and when I don’t spend $50
a month on software subscriptions, that is $50 more I get to put into savings.
I have the ‘choice’ to save or spend that money I ‘didn’t spend, as I choose. And most
often, in my case, I actually do choose to save that money that ‘I could have spent’. I
suppose I could choose to spend it on a lens or a quadcopter or any one of a dozen other
things I’d ‘like’ to have, but just because other people end up spending any money they save
doesn’t mean it’s not possible to save that money. You make your choices and live with
them. I’m not sure if you are familiar with the PFD, but every year, each and every Alaskan
gets a check in the mail. The state shares out part of the money they took in from oil with
each and every resident. Way back when oil money was flowing in, many government
officials wanted to spend it. But, several politicians convinced everyone, that
instead of spending the money when they got it, the state would put it in a big account,
and now, they use a PORTION of the INTEREST on that savings account, to send each and
every resident of Alaska a check…..every year. We just got it this year on Oct. 1st and it
was $2072. Every big screen TV store, furniture store, travel agency and car dealer run ‘specials’
to convince people to part with this money, it’s like the biggest freaking shopping day you
ever saw….Black Friday on crack. This is money we get because many years ago,
some government officials in Alaska, decided that ‘money not spent’ should be saved.
If government of all things, can learn this lesson, it should be a lesson more people in this
consumerism society of ours could do well to adopt.And cable? I got rid of that 8 years ago and have saved much more than your numbers
by going with Netflix. Alaska cable TV markup and all.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com