David Lawrence
2
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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[Jeremy Garchow] “What happens with overlapping keywords, is a duplicate clip made?
I guess I could test it myself, but what’s the fun in that?”
Just tested. Yep, you get a subclip for the marked range of every keyword, i.e. if I keyword a small range inside a larger keyword range, you get a separate keyword bin with the smaller range as a subclip. This is what I would expect and it works fine for my purposes.
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David Lawrence
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[Shane Ross] “You presume that all NLE’s have XML support. Avid does not.”
[Shane Ross] “And that would be darn few:
Premiere Pro
Resolve (but it isn’t an NLE…yet)”Thank you Shane.
That’s actually an important point I’d like everyone to remember when we talk about subscription-only software.
Over in the Adobe CC Or Not forum, a lot of people seem to think that Adobe’s “pay rent forever or we cut off access to your projects” business model isn’t a problem, because you can always export an XML and move to another NLE.
I think you took that argument off the table.
I’m still excited about this workflow, though. 😉
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David Lawrence
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[Richard Herd] “I’m having a terrible time using subclips in CS6 because they do not slip and roll. How do you solve that?”
I tested on a machine with FCP7, CS6 and CC. I don’t have an Avid so I’m waiting for my brother in LA to do a test later tonight. EDIT: Shane says Avid doesn’t support XML so I guess that won’t work.
In FCP7, command-option-F reveals the subclip frame in the parent clip.
In CS6, the workflow is you open the subclip in the source browser, mark in and out for the entire subclip, then edit the subclip’s start and end times using the Edit Subclip… menu item.
You can then drop the subclip into the timeline and extend or slip and roll.
CC’s checkbox for subclip boundaries is certainly more elegant, but you don’t need to use CC to be able to extend subclip boundaries in Premiere. Give it a try and let me know if it works for you.
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David Lawrence
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[TImothy Auld] “I guess more specifically I’m asking how (and if) keyword collections fit into Premiere, Vegas, Edius, et al? Are we just talking translation to FCP&?”
Xto7 turns keyword collections into named bins containing subclips. See my original post for pictures. It’s rad!
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David Lawrence
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[TImothy Auld] “But are we only talking x to 7? What else?”
This new version of Xto7 is the key.
Also, a big piece of this probably comes from how Apple changed the Library/Event structure in FCPX version 10.1.1 to more closely reflect how other NLEs work.
But yeah, all you need is FCPX 10.1.1, the latest version of Xto7 and FCP7.
Import some footage into FCPX, make some keyword collections with log notes, export your event as FCPXML, convert with Xto7, and import into FCP7.
From there you can either start editing if you still use Legacy or export a FCP7 XML and use that somewhere else. It seems like a lot of steps but in my opinion, it’s easy and worth it.
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David Lawrence
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[TImothy Auld] “What precisely do you get in FCPX that you would not get starting in any other NLE? I can do the equivalent of skimming, range selecting, and annotating in any other NLE workflow. And if I did it in Avid I would actually have markers that are useful. I don’t see why I would choose FCPX as my organizational tool for any job.”
I get where you’re coming from. Believe me, no one’s more surprised by this than me. You should have see the look on some friend’s faces when I told them I was making FCPX a key part of my workflow, lol. 😉
It’s completely true that you can get the equivalent of skimming, range selecting, and annotating in any other NLE workflow.
But what you don’t get is the speed, fluidity, and ease of FCPX.
Jeremy has written many posts on how keyword collections are essentially bins but with greater flexibility. He’s right. I’ve always appreciated FCPXs organizing tools. My problem has always been with the timeline. Now, I can ignore the timeline and just use the part of FCPX I like.
This Xto7 workflow allows me to translate keyword collections directly into bins with annotated subclips. For me and my needs, annotated subclips presorted into keyword-named bins is way more useful then having markers.
That’s just me, your needs may be different. But if you have FCPX, give this workflow a try. You too may be pleasantly surprised.
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David Lawrence
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[TImothy Auld] “Why not just start in Premiere, Avid, FCP7, or whatever else? Why in the hell would anyone start any project in FCPX?”
Tim,
I have zero interest in cutting a complex project in FCPX. I’m thinking about this purely for logging and organizing.
Skimming, range selecting, keywording, and annotating clips is a fantastic logging workflow in FCPX. Better than anything else I’ve tried. And it fits into my team’s research and synthesis process extremely well.
With this new version of Xto7, all prep work and organization in FCPX moves seamlessly into a cutting environment I’m comfortable with. I get the best of both worlds.
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David Lawrence
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[Shane Ross] “How does this work for Avid? Sony Vegas? Edius? So far all you’ve shown is how to use this for FCX and Premiere Pro. That’s not “any” NLE. How would you translate full project organization and media to Avid Media Composer? Edius? Lightwave?”
Fair questions, Shane.
Xto7 gives me this in FCP7:
I was then able to export XML from this FCP7 project and successfully import it into Premiere.
I presume that any NLE that can import bins, clips, subclips and Log Note metadata from standard FCP7 XML will work. I don’t have all the NLEs you mentioned but can test with Avid sometime later today.
Maybe *any* is too strong a word. It should work with any NLE that properly reads FCP7 XML. That in itself is still a big deal. I’d love it if folks with other systems could give this workflow a try and report back.
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David Lawrence
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It offers sub clip marking as well as metadata entry and edit.
I know the strengths of X, and I know why I use it, I am just wondering why David wouldn’t use Prelude.”
Fair question. I guess I’ve just never much cared for Prelude’s overall workflow. I get how it’s useful but it just doesn’t feel as fast, fluid and comprehensive as FCPX’s organizing tools, which are in a class off their own.
I’m also much more interested in keyword ranges as bins rather than as markers. I don’t know if this is possible in Prelude as I didn’t bother installing it when I upgraded to CS6.
I did investigate the Prelude Live Logger iPad app:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/adobe-prelude-live-logger/id705688267?mt=8
This would be super useful for capturing notes live during interviews. But without jam sync, we can’t use it.
FCPX will be great for what I’m planning. I’m totally psyched!
_______________________
David Lawrence
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[Herb Sevush] “It’s also very limited in third party plug-ins. As much as I want this to succeed, LW is not for me, it’s meant for an off-line, on-line feature film workflow, at least for now.”
Yep, me neither. It’s got a long way to go and seems geared to a very specific workflow model that doesn’t apply to me. Let’s see what Resolve 11 brings to the table.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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