[David Lawrence]

Outstanding post, Franz. Thank you.

[Franz Bieberkopf] “Deciding the spine is the process of editing.”

Perfectly said.

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[David Lawrence]

[Carsten Orlt] “Having tracks is something editors have to struggle with everyday because all tracks have to do everything at once. “

I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve never struggled with tracks. Understanding tracks is part of my job.

[Carsten Orlt] “FCP legacy was already better than Avid because it already made the doing it all at once the default. But you are facing difficulties again when you wanted to only change one clips in/out on one track. What about the other tracks?”

Again, I’ve never had any difficulty. It’s easy once you learn. Knowing how to do this is part of my job.

[Carsten Orlt] “So yes you can improve the workflow by adding shortcuts to do things quicker than when doing them manually one after the other (normal evolution of every software ever created) (converting connected to storyline when adding dissolve is best example) but you can’t change the basic idea behind it because that would mean you’re back to tracks.”

I basically agree. So let me ask you the same question I asked Jeremy in another thread. If you honestly believe the trackless magnetic paradigm is the future and better than what we’ve worked with for the past 20+ years, how long do you think it will take to become an industry standard? Will DAW venders begin using a trackless approach to match Apple’s? Will Logic X be trackless?

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[David Lawrence]

[Jeremy Garchow] “I think your perspective is very limited. Do this with a video clip, and you will see. There is no ripple. And as Andy mentioned, you hold option, and there is no ripple when grabbing a gap.”

I think I have a pretty strong grasp of what’s going on here.

I’m really surprised so many of you don’t see why you’d want to use the position tool to move a gap. Here’s a very simple example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Pc56peq98

This is a very typical J/L-cut scenario with multiple audio sources. The connected clips are connected to the gap because that creates the correct sync relationship between them. All I want to do is move this connected group by a few frames or so to fix the pacing. I don’t care about overwriting the primary. I can’t use the select tool and holding down the option key doesn’t help. The position tool is supposed to let you place objects anywhere you want so I use the position tool. I think this is a totally reasonable thing to want to do based on the tool’s intended purpose. If you disagree, please explain.

Sorry Guys, I can’t give Apple a pass on this. Destructive behavior like you see in the video is not OK. If it’s not a bug it is without question a design, implementation, and QA failure. I’ll be very curious to see if this gets fixed in the next release.

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[David Lawrence]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Mmm. It’s a grey area. “

Do you mean you’re still on the fence regarding whether the position tool disables ripple mode on the timeline? That’s the argument people have been making since June. I think I’ve shown definitive proof this is not true.

[Jeremy Garchow] “That’s not the job of the position tool. That’s the job of the magnetic timeline. The position tools overwrites. It is a tool of intent.”

Yes, overwrite. This is not the same as disabling ripple. That’s my point. If there were a toggle switch on the timeline to disable ripple, we wouldn’t need a position tool. That’s why I consider it a workaround.

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[David Lawrence]

[Neil Goodman] “i think everyones is missing the point. In FCPX – you need to use gaps. You dont really have a chopice and its definately a workaround for the locked ripple timeline . Thats the main problem is that Apple for some reason thinks we all want to work in ripple mode all he time. “

Bingo. In FCP7 there are no gaps. The timeline is a wide open space. The only thing to think about is where you want to place your media clips in that space, which has a direct one-to-one mapping to time. It doesn’t get any simpler or more intuitive. Any space between media clips is just space. You don’t have to think about it. It plays black/silence until the next media object is encountered in time.

The beauty of FCP is that you can select this space and delete or close it if you choose to. This is smart, intuitive, and helpful. It’s why I prefer FCP gap handling to Avid’s. Space is space. But if you want to close it it’s easy. If you need a solid object, use a slug.

MC’s approach is interesting and I see the utility, even though I prefer FCP. The important thing is that you can ignore gaps if you don’t need them.

FCPX on the other hand forces you to deal with gaps. They’re the only thing keeping your timeline from collapsing in on itself — oops, I mean rippling. 😉

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[David Lawrence]

[Jeremy Garchow] “It would basically reflect what you see in the list or filmstrip view of the browser right in the timeline. Markers do translate in to the timeline from the browser. I think if they added a ‘favorites’ section to the index, or just added a favorites sort option to the ‘Tags” section it would serve the purpose. The timeline index is one of FCPXs greatest strengths, I think.”

Exactly. And I agree!

[Jeremy Garchow] “I do not know of another editor that gives a project overview quite like that. Humans like lists. I hope they plus it out.”

It’s been a while since I’ve used it but IIRC, ProTools has a window that lists select regions. Peak Pro does as well. It’s not exactly the same but it’s a similar idea. I hear Avid is working on a timeline index for MC6.

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[David Lawrence]

[Tom Wolsky] “Maybe Jeremy does, but I’m unclear. I might understand in a particularly workflow, but I’m puzzled why you’re using that.”

It’s because I want to do all my editorial work on the timeline, rather than in the browser. By having favorite ranges available on whole clips in the timeline, I’m able to instantly find, skim, grab, assemble and test versions of my cut — all at the same time, all in the same place. For me, it’s a very fast and efficient way to work.

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[David Lawrence]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Ah. I see what you are saying now. No, the favorites do not show up in the timeline.”

Guess it’s a feature request then. Do you understand why I want it?

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[David Lawrence]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Perhaps try muting the video and see what happens as a test. Are you running 64 bit with lots of RAM?”

Will give that a try. Laptop’s maxed out at 8GB and I’m running 64-bit.

[Jeremy Garchow] “It’s true, but if an OMF export makes the audio timeline look like your FCPX timeline, then it’s good, no?”

Maybe, I’d like to see if roles will make it possible to see audio in a track-like manner. I’m skeptical but curious.

[Jeremy Garchow] “And that the beauty of ranges/favorites, they aren’t locked like sub-clips were, they are simply ranges connected to the main clip, if you need surrounding media, you can “open in timeline” or match frame back to browser and skim the whole clip, or resort the bin (Show all clips) and you get all the long form back.”

Right, but I never make sub-clips so that’s not a problem. What I’d like to do is drop an entire clip onto the timeline and see the green favorite ranges on the clip, just like they appear when viewing the clip in the browser. Is this possible?

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[David Lawrence]

[Jeremy Garchow] “You move it just a little bit, and it will ripple the timeline to the amount of the space you are trying to move. But if you move the gap completely out of the way, the timeline ripples correctly.”

So, getting back to the title of this topic, can we agree that that particular issue is settled? 😉

[Jeremy Garchow] “I think FCPX is assuming that this is a goofy way to do things, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t do it (why not just copy and paste that gap? Something you CAN”T do in FCP7, you cannot copy and place empty space. This is why I like gaps, they are way more flexible and allow much more control than space, including exactly how long that space is in time). This is an interface choice that could easily be fixed, but I’m not sure it should be if you know how to use the tool “correctly”. I think they would need to fix it to protect people from using it incorrectly, which happens, just look at clip collisions.”

I’ve done more tests and agree with your analysis. As you move a gap with the position tool, the timeline assumes you intend to remove it and immediately ripples the length of the gap. This is a dangerous behavior and should absolutely be changed. I’ll post a new video in the next day or so to clearly demonstrate why.

[Jeremy Garchow] “The position tool is not a script action, but actually is a tool of intent. “

Right, isn’t the intent to position objects in time without rippling? Why treat gap objects differently from clip objects?

[Jeremy Garchow] “Make it 24 minutes if you want to. That space will always the same distance between your work area and your sketch area until you don’t want it to be.”

Until you accidentally bump it while working with the position tool and your sketch area outside your window view disappears. 😉

[Jeremy Garchow] “I do think it forces you to think about what you’re doing, not such a bad thing.”

I don’t mind thinking, but I do like my tools to make sense.

[Jeremy Garchow] “Yeah, the position tool is essential to the tracklessness as it does override the ripple when used as intended.”

Yes, but needs to gracefully default to non-destructive behavior when used creatively.

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