David Lawrence
2
COW Coins
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Have you seen what happens when you “detach audio”?”
No way to tell if you’ve lost sync? Sorry, I couldn’t resist 😉
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I go back to my statement, the system wasn’t ready. It was released in the 10.0 state because everything was not quite in place. Apple knew exactly what they were doing. I believe that they knew this interface was going to be a stretch for some long time FCP users, they also knew there was going to be some bugs, they knew there was going to be some backlash, so instead of releasing it to an overwhelming majority of users who were going to bang on it harder than has been done in their “beta testing” FCPX would have been even more of a complete joke that some people think it currently is as it would have been full of half working “features”. “
[Jeremy Garchow] “It is pretty clear to me that Apple has thought about FCPX pretty hard, and they are still thinking about it. It’s not done, or else they would have released it. The whole picture is not in view, and some can’t wait for that picture to come clear. I get that.”
On the other hand, what if there’s a much easier explanation?
What if they simply blew it?
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I think you need more sleep, Bill 😉
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Fair enough. I see where you’re going.
What you don’t see is me doing is going on a Windows debate forum and asking windows users why “ls” is called “dir” at the windows command prompt knowing full well they represent the same function.
Different languages. Same result.
I cant do what I need to do in windows without learning a different language to complete the same task.
So I can choose to learn the framework, or quit using windows, but Microsoft isn’t going to change command line to Unix.If a saw a compelling reason to fully switch to windows, I’d do it. I just don’t see a reason. With FCPX I see reasons to stick around, even if a sequence is a project and a bin is a keyword collection. I guess I’ll be fluent in a couple of NLE terms by the end of it. Good for me.”
Right, but again, it’s all the same point, isn’t it? If this were the “iMovie Pro” forum, none of us would be here — there’d be nothing to debate.
But the EOL of FCS and the fact that Apple chose to name this new app “Final Cut Pro” inevitably means an entire industry that relies on FCS is now forced to compare the two and figure out what to do.
You may choose to use Windows or not, but FCS users have no choice. Moving forward over the next couple years, we either adopt a radical new UI or switch to something else. I guess a third possibility is that Apple reverses course and brings back an industry standard timeline option, but I think that’s unlikely.
I still enjoy learning as much as possible about the new beast and hope I can make it useful for something. I especially appreciate your detailed examples. Great stuff, Jeremy!
Ironically, I also think your response to Windows is the perfect metaphor for what so many of us “haters” 😉 have been struggling with since June 21. Understandable, yes?
I guess I’ll wind up being fluent in a couple new NLEs as well. Just not the one I was expecting for the last couple years.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It is that bad, all the “Terminal” commands are different, things are hidden in weird places. I know I would get used to it, but no thanks. “
Hmmm, that statement reminds me of something… 😉
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Now what, haters!?”
LOL! FCPX is AWESOME! *
* For everything but actual editing :p
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[Steve Connor] “Different NLE’s do not make good Editors make better or worse programmes, the creative process in editing has remained the same from Steenbecks to iPads.”
On this I agree completely. But that’s not what I’m arguing. For me the musical analogy is perfect. FCP7 is my instrument. I play it like an axe. But whether or not you agree with the musical analogy, my point is about the difference between open vs. rules-based tools systems like the magnetic timeline. Franz said it well:
[Franz Bieberkopf] “But, and this is a point which is fundamentally more important than anything I have said so far, the real flexibility of the “open timeline” (and accompanying project structure) is most apparent when you consider that it allows my approach to working as well as the bin and source monitor approach, as well as, no doubt, many other approaches; to wit it doesn’t dictate one method of working, and easily accommodates many ways.”
The open timeline model has proven its value in everything from the simplest home movies to Oscar winning feature films to broadcast to interactive to everything in between for over 20 years. It allows for many different workflows and accommodates many different needs. The magnetic timeline has yet to prove itself better at anything but the most elementary assembly style editing.
If you find it faster and more efficient for the work you do, by all means enjoy. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind.
What I object to is Apple and others saying that this new ripple-only trackless paradigm is better. That it’s the future of NLEs. A little criticality on that point would be a good thing for everyone. Talk is easy, but where’s the proof? Let’s see screenshots of a project in FCPX that is as complex as the examples from Franz and Shawn Federline, from someone that actually needs to produce at that level. Not just simple mockups, real actual workflows that go all the way to finished product. I’d like to see proof that FCPX is faster for complex, multidimensional jobs.
The other question I keep wanting to go back to is industry standards and other related digital media workflows. Let’s assume Apple’s ripple-only trackless paradigm really is better. When do you see it becoming standard across all NLEs? When do you see it becoming widely adopted by DAW vendors? Will Apple’s next version of LogicX be ripple-only and trackless?
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[Steve Connor] “As long as I can cut, paste and move clips around with precision then any NLE is just a tool.
The only difference for me is speed of implementation.”
[Steve Connor] “For me workflow is just mechanics, the creative process comes from me, whoever I may be collaborating with and the edit decisions we make. “
I guess I just don’t see it that way. I find there’s no separation between the two. For me, mechanics, process and creative style are all intrinsically connected.
It would be like saying to an expert guitarist that the mechanics of playing guitar don’t matter. As long as the notes are there, it’s all the same. Never mind the fact that this new guitar we’re giving you doesn’t use strings, the notes are in different places and certain chord combinations are no longer allowed.
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[Tom Wolsky] “I understand you appreciate its flexibility, and clearly FCP no longer offers that kind of flexibility. It is a specific tool with a very specific method of use, with some limited adaptability.”
[Tom Wolsky] “What I am finding is that people who are new to editing video adapt to it effortlessly, and appreciate it’s logic and behavior. Those who approach it with a work methodology conceived in other applications have the most difficulty using it because they spend their time trying to adapt it to their way of working. “
[Tom Wolsky] “My timeline’s rarely, except for a special effect, exceed three tracks. I work between multiple sequences rather than in one. The current version of FCP lends itself to that.”
Tom – thanks for sharing more about your process and thinking. I’m in basic agreement with you.
One thing I wonder about is if the short-term benefits of FCPX’s ease of use for new editors outweigh the fact that they’re learning a system with a completely different approach and language than the rest of the industry. This thread has had some interesting discussion on this topic.
I also wonder if a tool that promotes a specific style of working ultimately benefits an individual’s creative process as much as a tool that is completely open. The analogy I’ve used in the past is the smart instruments in GarageBand. They make it easy for a beginner to make great sounding work quickly. On the other hand, a regular instrument may take years of practice, but ultimately allows for individual style and many more possibilities. Curious about your thoughts.
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[Simon Ubsdell] “Thanks for all the great workflow ideas you are throwing up by the way – really useful and insightful.”
Agreed. Always interesting stuff Jeremy, even if I don’t always agree 😉 Thank you!
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David Lawrence
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