The Open Timeline and Spatial Workflows — An Example

[Michael Gissing]

David, this edit methodology is similar to how I approach audio editing on a DAW with the difference that I have source at the end and the edit is at the beginning. You method however, allows for ripple edit which I don’t use.

One difference is that I use tracks as further delineators of good/ best/ ng takes. This is because Fairlight is a track based editor so dedicated keys that are used to jump to clip start are modified by track selection which also automatically mutes playback of non selected tracks. The lack of track based select and mute functionality is partly what makes FCP of all flavours a clumsy audio editor.

For dialog editing, I think the Boris Soundbite is potentially more useful than meta data based magnetic timeline.

[David Lawrence]

[Michael Gissing] “David, this edit methodology is similar to how I approach audio editing on a DAW with the difference that I have source at the end and the edit is at the beginning. You method however, allows for ripple edit which I don’t use. “

Michael —

I’m not surprised to hear this. I think understanding audio-centric workflow helps make the constraints of the magnetic timeline obvious. For editors who work like I do, it’s inefficient for anything beyond the most basic editorial tasks.

You’re correct that the reason I keep source at the front and edit from the end is because of ripple. I’ll often shift-delete gap space as I’m cutting down dialogue. The important thing is ripple is a tool. I only use it when I need it. It’s not the permanent state of my timeline workspace.

Imagine cutting dialogue or music on a timeline that’s in fixed ripple mode — the only way to hold time apart being with explicitly-placed spacer objects. Audio people would never accept this. I think it’s a deal-breaker for most advanced video people as well.

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David Lawrence
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[Jeff Folland]

There really isn’t any reason you can’t cut exactly like this is fcp x. In fact its the same method I used in fcp7 so I’m very familiar with it (although I would usually shift delete the garbage out as I went). If you use the positon tool and gap clips in fcp x its exactly the same as old school fcp. In fcp x it’s easier since in the primary storyline when you get to the state of shuffling clips around to set their order and stitch your interview together, they ripple out of the way. No more having to do the dance of selecting everything down the line and making a gap. etc. It’s actually much easier and faster once you get the workflow.

But it’s ignoring the even better way of doing this which is tagging in the event window. Go through clip by clip like you would in the timeline. Set ins and outs and mark sections as favorites and tag them with various tags like ‘must use’. ‘interesting’ etc. Think of the tags as your markers. When you are done with this process you not only have the clips you want marked but also have rough ins and outs set. And with smart collections you can have the same content in multiple collections. Multiple tagging allows for a lot more depth like tagging by person or content as well as priority of use. This adds signifanctly to the speed of zeroing in on a clip you are trying to find. Then filter your events to show favorites and select the ‘must use’ collection. It’s like you already have a rough edit of the must use stuff in the event window. Then you drag them into the timeline in the order you see fit for fine tuning. All the usual controls work with keyboard trimming ins and outs to tighten up edits. But it’s doing much more heavy lifting in the event window than you would do in the old bin way of fcp 7 which you and I were making up for by cutting and tagging in the fcp 7 timeline. You could still use a gap clip to create a scratch section where you shuffle stuff around.

Now getting to the cutaway phase is a different mindset without tracks and I’m still wrapping my brain around the pluses and minuses. But for cutting long interviews into tighter edits as you described, I think fcp x is actaully much, much faster and easier to organize. I know that’s a very rare opinion in these here parts!

J

[Christian Schumacher]

You are right on the money.

Editing involves many different intents at the same time.
AND every piece of work has its particular combination of them.

Hence the tool should allow you to place anything, anywhere…
Up or down…To the left or to the right… Freely, for God’s sake.
AND preferably in alternative fashions, as well.

This is the “journey” that one needs to go through to craft an edit:
To experiment, to deliberate, to ponder feedbacks and to sort it all out.
The final result is achieved ONLY after we are able to do that.

Sadly, according to Apple’s engineering brains (or marketing ones?)
we all should know it beforehand – Instead I say WE know it better.

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people
who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”

Mark Twain

[Christian Schumacher]

“Go through clip by clip like you would in the timeline”

It seems that works for a certain intent, but surely not to visualize them stringed together which is David’s point in this thread.

[Jeremy Garchow]

First, David L, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time. This will certainly help keep a healthy dialogue going. I will craft a detailed response when I’m in front of FCPX and can provide more screen grabs.

I understand what’s in 2 but i cant see it are, so to clarify, are those just the little dialogue edits with overlaps (checkerboard)? Looks messed up, but sounds great? :). And 3 is a few or more left overs?

I do have to say that part of my response is what Jeff Foland has said. Since I know you are a timeline organizer (as I am in FCP7), I will keep my responses more tailored to that, but I do have to jump in here really quick:

[Christian Schumacher] “It seems that works for a certain intent, but surely not to visualize them stringed together which is David’s point in this thread.”

and you can do this in FCPX before you hit the timeline. With the favorites sorted you can make a compound clip (in the browser) of just the favorites and make one clip if you want to, and that clip is then editable in to the timeline, and can be broken apart at anytime in the timeline (or opened in another timeline, and necessary parts copied and pasted). To this compound clip, you can add/remove/reorder whatever you want, including more layers of video/broll/audio.

Alternatively, keeping the favorites as separate clips in the browser, you can easily skim to the next clip. Skimming, is awesome. I didn’t like it at first, seemed a bit out of control, but I learned to control it.

Thanks again, to everyone. More later.

[Carsten Orlt]

Couldn’t agree more Jeff.

Its interesting that people still not really analyse the x timeline. All they see is ripple being the default and no tracks.
If you actually look at your options you have ‘forward delete’ (‘function-delete’ on small or reduced keyboards) which is the classical lift. It really shows that if you just looking for the old way (and not reading the manual) you’ll miss all the added functionality.

Specially true looking at audio. FCPx makes SoundtrackPro really obsolete and takes audio editing far beyond FCP7 (of course a dedicated DAW is still ahead)
First of all audio is edited at sample level no matter if it is part of a video clip or not. This gives you a precision FCP7 can only dream off.
All plugins are right in FCPx and buses can be simulated by compounding audio clips into logical groups which than can have additional plugins and their own volume graph. Yes you don’t have them in place when opened but as one mixes in batches anyway it’s easy to make adjustments to individual clips before compounding them. And little adjustments can be done anytime by opening the compound, or you break the pound apart, adjust, and compound again.
Just imagine the classical scenario of the client returning after a week and wanting changes. In FCP7-Soundtrack world you were in deep trouble as the conform changes never worked! In FCPx you’ll be down in no time ’cause everything is still in one timeline!

FCPx needs some adjusting to workflows you are used to from FCP7, Premiere or Avid. But the gains in FCPx far outweigh some shortcomings one might encounter when trying to use the old ‘muscle memory’.

I just had a little project where I threw everything from 320 flash to 1080 into one 720 timeline and the picture quality FCPx delivers is just stunning compared to FCP7. Audio is so much faster and better to work with, if alone by the fact that the waveform is really fast and therefor gives you a true optical aid to edit audio (FCP7 rebuild waveform is stone age).

FCPx needs time to be understood and to practise best workflows. For me the starting idea to get rid of tracks so I don’t have to think about track panels, audio with video, sync issues etc is really really good.
That I run into little problems like yesterday where I was editing to music (on main storyline) and I wanted to shift a number of secondary story lines and titles, looking for the ‘select everything from here forward’ function and of course couldn’t find it. I need to adjust my approaches because the timelines system work differently. And I’m sure I will run into some dead ends before I know the quickest way to get from A to B. Same as I had using FCP7

If you think the old way is better safe your time and stick with FCP7, Premiere or Avid. I don’t think FCPx will change. The only thing they’ll add is more functionality to group clips based on certain criteria.

my 2 cents.

Carsten

[Steve Connor]

David, that’s pretty much the way I work with interview based films too. I have been working like that all week in FCPX, the position tool allows you to do this. Then when you are composing your main edit, the ripple function makes it easier to re-order clips.

“My Name is Steve and I’m an FCPX user”

[David Lawrence]

[Jeff Folland] “Go through clip by clip like you would in the timeline. Set ins and outs and mark sections as favorites and tag them with various tags like ‘must use’. ‘interesting’ etc. Think of the tags as your markers.”

FCPX’s metadata and tagging features are one of its greatest strengths. They’re so interesting in fact, that I think FCPX would make an excellent logging and preflight assembly tool. If there were some XML translation utility, I’d be using it today. I wrote about a logging workflow like you describe here in the FCPX Techniques forum:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/344/4418

[Jeff Folland] ” It’s like you already have a rough edit of the must use stuff in the event window.”

It’s not even close. I don’t work with a script, I make everything up as I go along. I may know something is “must have” but I have no idea how or where I’ll use it until I start building the piece. And as I build, I may change my mind several times. I never know what the finished piece will look like until it’s done. It’s a creative, organic process. The process is what defines the workflow.

[Jeff Folland] “You could still use a gap clip to create a scratch section where you shuffle stuff around. “

You’re still in ripple mode. Only now you have keep track of not just the stuff you’re cutting, but also everything in the space in-between. How is that a better way to work?

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl

[Steve Connor]

David, you do understand that the position tool disables ripple? If you use the position tool nothing on the timeline ripples, it just automatically creates gaps when you leave a space. That is the only way it is different to FCP7 in terms of clip positioning,

“My Name is Steve and I’m an FCPX user”