David Cherniack
Forum Replies Created
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A probably accurate picture of the state of the NLE wars at the present moment, Eric. It would surprise me if the folks at Adobe aren’t aware of their opportunities. And now that Axio, and to some extent, Cineform, are displaying leading edge, state of the art capabilities on PPro that can’t be matched on FCP systems, Adobe really has a golden opportunity to grab a good share of the professional pie. Whether they’re up to it or not should become clear with the release of 2.0… the features they’ve added and their effort to market it. One thing is clear, they won’t have another 20 month development cycle to fall back on if they come up terribly short of what the market wants.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Tim Kolb] “If there is one thing I learned when I got involved in training and software projects, it’s that my personal mindset doesn’t have a monopoly on the best workflow for every situation and every user…
…and nobody else does either. :-)”
Who could disagree with this sentiment? But the point is that there ARE a large number of inefficient work flows in Premiere Pro. That’s just poor design, not different design . 🙂
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Tim Kolb] “…and for those of us who may not cozy up to the way edit* worked?”
Although I’m sure you don’t mean it (because you seem like an intelligent guy :), it could be inferred that you mean all workflows are equal – in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. Well, for someone who insists on an inefficient workflow (A/B editing for example) I say let them have it! Just give me the option to work efficiently.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Tim Kolb] “[Beckt Media] “My point is that time remapping is fairly significant when compared to many of the keyboard or tool requests people are moaning about…:-)”
This is true”
I guess you guys have never used an NLE as timeline efficient as edit* Otherwise you wouldn’t think so. And this is from someone who uses time warping ( an edit* name ) extensively. Believe me when I tell you that the most frustrating thing about PPro from my perspective is the inefficient, and sometimes very clumsy, way I’m forced to do things in the timeline. Maybe I’ll eventually get over it but I sure hope that the design team leaders can sit down with an experienced edit* user and get enlightenment 🙂
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
All these different uses have tehir own individual requirements, it’s true. Nevertheless I would argue that the timeline workflow stupidities effect everyone pretty well equally. If it takes three processes to do something that could be done in one ( like the aforementioned rolling edit inanity) it doesn’t matter whether you’re cutting a 3 hour documentary or a 10 second spot, whether you’re in a group SAN or by yourself. It just slows you down.
Being the lazy sod that I am I hate anything that forces me into extra effort. Therefore I wish to change it.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
Thanks for the crie de coeur. I do appreciate your sentiments. We are in the same boat.
My feeling is that a lot of things went wrong in the early design stages of PPro and we’ll be continuing to pay the price, probably through version 3.0. For many of us there is no real alternative. The other two A’s are objectionable in their own right. Velocity may not survive the Harris aquisition. It also doesn’t have nested timelines. The unspoken word osmosing from the 2.0 beta program is “Expect integration, expect asset management, expect some fixes of the major workflow issues. Don’t expect miracles.” Well the problem is that the workflow issues are the most frustrating thing about the app. Integration and asset management are not gong to speed up most editing. I’m beginning to think that the more seasoned users of PPro have to band together put pressure on Adobe as a group to address these things in a point release. 18 more months of having the rolling edit tool balk at cuts is just not acceptable ( I use this only as an example. In fact I have no idea if it’s addressed in 2.0) But it may be premature to mention this now. I’m willing to wait to 2.0 and evaluate the situation then. Part of the frustration is the time it’s taking to get 2.0 out the door.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Tim Kolb] “Could you be more specific? I’m not following what exactly you’re talking about…continuous timecode…rolling edit tool leaves a frame, etc…”
Tim,
Say you razor a region in a shot in order to copy a part of it to paste somewhere else (often done for audio reasons). You’re left with two cuts in the original event that don’t do anything. They’re now irrelevant, just messing up your timeline. You can’t undo them because then you’ll lose the paste. In edit* there was a function to delete these ‘irrelevant’ cuts – within any marked range or the entire timeline – cuts where the source code is continuous across them.
In PPro if you use the rolling edit tool to drag one cut across the other you’re stopped at the second cut. For some inexplicable reason PPro always wants to leave 1 frame of the shot you’re dragging across. To continue you have to delete the frame, close the gap, and then continue. If you want to drag accoss a number of clips it quickly becomes extremely annoying. You’re forced to use the lift function and then extend the clip – mark a range, lift, drag instead of one simple drag.
It’s just one of the many inefficient work flows that are frustrating users who are accustomed to more mature NLE’s. Not difficult to fix – but a result of a poorly thought out consultation phase in the original design process.
And Tim, you’re always mentioning the lack of resources for the programming team to fix/implement these things. Intrigued, I looked at the credits. I stopped counting the progammers after the first three dozen. Edit* was completely coded by 8 guys and in the time they worked on it were able to accomplish a ton more functionality and integration with Combustion than these guys have managed.
There are harshly disparaging words, it’s true, but they do reflect the views of numerous seasoned users with experience on other apps. Friendly has edited programs on more NLE’s than I care to count. The NLE universe is rapidly contracting into the three A’s but if 2.0 doesn’t fix the many dumb things designed into PPro, I’m afraid the A’s will number 2.5.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Dave Friend] “(Of course the rolling edit tool would suffice if it didn’t insist on leaving the last frame of the clip you are rolling over. grrr…)”
grrr, is right! What the (substitute your own expletive) were they thinking with that!
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
And how ’bout the ability to select a range on the timeline for cut/copying. Right now we’re limited to selecting clip boundaries which is way too constricting and requires the additional steps of making razored cuts in order to accomplish it….which leads me to:
The ability to delete a cut in a clip where the timecode is continuous.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
And the ability to have seperate undo lists for each open sequence ( kind of a no-brainer, eh).
And how ’bout the ability to maintain undo lists from session to session.
David
AllinOneFilms.com