[Danielle Warren]

Ha, that is a funny story about your Wired subscription. I suppose at the end of the day, any campaign for anything won’t please anyone. They were definitely targeting an audience, and it worked because FCP became such a standard for a lot of post houses in the last number of years.

And you’re so right about there just aren’t enough hours in the day to learn and master, really master all these different pieces of software. I kept looking around at posts for jobs asking for editors to be proficient in both FCP and After Effects/Photoshop etc. and thought, “Am I the only one that doesn’t know all of those and doesn’t have the time to master them? I’ve sat down and tried to learn some basics in After Effects, but it would literally take me months to become anywhere near proficient enough to do what clients ask for. It’s a joke in my opinion and I don’t understand how they find people that are THAT good at both. Your analogy of the music virtuoso is a good one. I wish producers, post houses, directors et al would think about that when they hire editors and realize it’s a craft, and not one that is just bundled together with graphics, coloring, and finishing work.

Thanks for your stories. I was too young when FCP first started so I never knew how it was marketed. I came in at FCP 3 and have progressed from there. And I was able to buy 3 because of the student discount, making an already semi affordable software even more affordable for students.

[Danielle Warren]

To be honest, I never saw FCP the way you are describing it. And what I get frustrated with with clients I’ve found in NY is they want you to be not just an editor, but a colorist, a VFX artist, a graphic designer, etc all in one. But I’m not any of those things, nor ever wanted to be which is why I am an editor and call myself an editor. I don’t understand when things started to shift to that area of , “oh, you’re the editor so of course you’ll also do the color correcting and the graphics, because it’s not as if those two things aren’t intense skills in their own right.” I hate this attitude, and I never used FCP for anything but editing, and the occasional small color correction and temp white on black graphics until the real ones were made, by the real graphic designers. I most certainly do not want to wear all the hats as it were and I extremely dislike the fact that I feel I have to start mastering After Effects, Photoshop, Motion, Color, etc. just to get jobs as an editor! It’s a joke to me. When did editors become jack of all trades and stop being editors. It’s such an advanced skill, that as you say takes years to hone and perfect, so why take that away and expect them to do so much more.

From where I come from and my background, editors edit. Period. There are separate graphics people and departments, and the reason FCP is so widely used is because it’s an industry that works completely offline. There is no need for something as robust and extensive as Avid. You’re not doing any finishing work. And when so much media is now for the Internet, there’s even less of a reason to use Avid because again, it’s not anything that needs finishing to the extent of a film or broadcast TV show.

BTW, if this post sounds at all angry, it is of course not aimed at you. I’m simply venting my frustrations and explaining where I’m coming from. I never cared to learn Avid because it was never necessary and all the features that everyone raves about that I will apparently love, were things I never used in FCP anyway because it’s not the kind of editing I do. I’m still excited to find out what all the fuss is about, and I’m very willing to learn and try and master Avid just to have another tool in the arsenal.

[Danielle Warren]

Thank you for the great post Stephen! As you mentioned, I’m not quite ready for ALL the keyboard tips and tricks, but I’ll get there. There was so much to learn for FCP, that I’m sure it will take a while to get all of them down on here too. Plus, I’ve remapped certain keys to match what I’m familiar with to at least make the transition more seamless. In starting to break down footage as is always my first step with a new project, it’s gone quite well and quick because I’ve managed to make it very close to FCP. The actual editing will be more of a challenge!

And yes, I went to an Avid 6 event last night and did discover that they are indeed now called markers. Fancy that!

[Danielle Warren]

That’s perfect! Thanks Michael!

[Danielle Warren]

Thanks for the responses Michael and Steve. But the answers are not really what I was looking for.

When you say locaters, is that the same as ‘markers’ in FCP? Or is it the equivalent? I just want something easy to mark frames as I go along watching the footage that I can then easily jump to later as I am scanning for visuals. Does that make sense?

And it’s not the audio on the timeline I want to see, but in the source monitor so I can play it and cut it as needed, then add it to the timeline. For example, when FCP has footage in the viewer window, there are tabs at the top to switch from video to audio, as well as filters and motion. You can easily tap the audio tab and see the audio of the clip that’s in there. Does that make sense?

Also, while I’m at it, another question popped up. When I’m going through the cut in my timeline in FCP and I need to jump back to the original footage (or audio) that’s there, I use the shortcut command option+command+F and it brings up whatever clip is highlighted into the viewer as it’s original source clip. How is that done in Avid? Thanks so much for the help. This is a struggle trying to figure out how I do everything in FCP in Avid so any help is appreciated!

[Danielle Warren]

Hey Michael,
I haven’t responded in a while because I was out of town in LA. I had a chance to catch up with my old shop and some friends at other shops and NO ONE is moving from FCP any time soon.

When you say it’s dated because: “Can’t read P2 footage natively. Can’t read XDCam native. Can’t read AVCHD. Can’t play DSLR natively. Can’t read Red natively. Requires way too much rendering compared to the other NLEs out there. Hasn’t had a significant update in about 4 years. The list goes on and on.” This doesn’t matter to companies that do their work completely offline. We don’t import straight from cameras. The thing that was the largest pain in my butt when I was an assistant was using a 3/4″ machine, but then and now you mostly get footage on DVCAMs, and I think increasingly, already on drives in Quicktime format ready to go. Perhaps this wasn’t explained better before, but that’s why Avid was and won’t be a necessity for a long time. And most people I talked to out there weren’t worried and believed Apple was going to improve on what they have for all the shops like them. There are too many professionals to leave out in the cold when it comes to FCP. I have to think they aren’t going to turn their backs on them.

I suppose it’s tougher being in NY because people are paranoid, even when things being cut are not going anywhere near a movie theater or broadcast TV. But that’s the way it is!

I’m going to spring for the Avid agility book, and if I can get the money together, go and do some training. Otherwise, I want to thank a lot of people on the thread for all the links and advice of great books and training online. I think the key is just starting to cut things in Avid and forcing myself to work in it.

Thanks Michael, and thanks everyone else! You’ve all been a great help and I’m more excited rather than apprehensive to start learning Avid!

[Danielle Warren]

Thanks Ed, that’s good advice. Although I’ve definitely heard that it’s less painful going from Avid to FCP simply because the UI is just easier and more intuitive and hence why so many have trouble going the other way. I really wish they would make that opposite book already, lol!

[Danielle Warren]

Thanks Ed. I’m glad I’m not the only one hurting! Perhaps it was my timing because I was young when FCP was out and it was obviously something you could buy for cheap, relatively. I bought FCP 3 with a student discount in 2002, just before I started college and just went from there. I was never around for Avid and to me it seemed like this beast of a machine/software that cost 100s of 1000s of dollars and only huge studios used it. Anything I’ve ever wanted or been paid to edit has never needed something specifically that Avid offered.

I was just reading through another thread that kind of goes along with what I’m saying: “Out here in LA, Broadcast production/post houses are sticking with FCP 7…looking at alternatives for when they NEED to switch. No need right now, as FCP 7 does everything we currently need”

This is my thinking right now. I don’t see anyone switching any time soon as so many of those people working there now are young editors, like myself, that really only learned FCP, for better or worse. In a lot of post/trailer houses, which is where I have worked and freelance, FCP does everything you need. So why all the fuss to switch? (at least right now).

[Danielle Warren]

“FCP7 is dead. It’s replacement is FCPX and it doesn’t do most of what 7 did, hence the reason to look at other NLE options.”

I see what you’re saying, but I don’t really agree. To be honest, I haven’t seen anyone desperate to switch over and leave FCP completely at all. As a freelancer, I see way more job postings for FCP editors than Avid (or any other NLE), and many offline houses still use FCP with no desperate view to switch anytime soon.

I really don’t believe that with so many users and a huge industry built around the software that they’re just going to let it disappear. I have to think that there’s more to come from Apple.

“FCP7 is incredibly dated already, and every release from Adobe and Avid leaves it further and further behind”

How is it dated exactly? As I said, a lot of editors I know aren’t jumping to FCPX, but are also quite happy to stick with using 7. It feels like after the negative response they received from FCPXs release, they will probably go back to then update 7 instead.

Again, different NLE programs work for different projects. In work I do, FCP is better and less expensive to use since nothing is done online. It just doesn’t make sense for big companies to switch something after years of using one system. Most of those editors don’t know Avid either.

But I still want to know Avid just to know it, but I cringe at the idea of ONLY using that. Even the way it’s laid out, the icons, the buttons etc. seems awful to me, lol!

[Danielle Warren]

I also forgot to mention when I wrote the post that the reason the client gave me for wanting to switch to using Avid is because he thinks that FCP will no longer be updated, version 7 at least as that’s still what a lot of people are using including he and myself. I haven’t looked, but apparently you can’t buy it from Apple anymore, you can only buy X.

What do you guys think about this? Is that really a valid reason? It never crossed my mind once, and while v7 isn’t perfect, it still works great and I don’t think that’s really any issue. I know this is an Avid forum, but figured as editors you guys might have some insight.