[Craig Alan]

the kit includes an extra louver. This is not made clear on bhphoto site but is on kino flo site.

I’d check with bh just to make sure you get both the 60 and 90.

if you add up the soft bag price and extra louver and gel bag it comes out at the $300.

no discount for buying as a kit.

i guess you save on shipping.

So the only question is whether you want that kind of carry bag.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Hi Daniel,

To my eyes, not enough light using just window light. Not sure why you’d white balance to daylight with the overhead flos on. The color looks off and parts of the scene looks blown out to me. Did you try manual white balancing and stopping down? Granted I’m viewing on a computer. What did your zebras show? Wish the old sony pd150/170 was 16×9. I think it would have looked good with that amount of natural light. Looks very crowded even without the kids. If you change the bulbs to daylight temp you might not need to use all of them.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Daniel,

Whatever equipment you rent, make sure you have time to experiment before the shoot. Different camcorders, different settings, different amount and quality of light = different results. And keep in mind, poor audio ruins more productions of this type than so so lighting.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Hi,

My students and I have shot lectures, teacher directed lessons, power point presentations, unedited lessons for teacher certification, student projects, clips of students activities, group meetings, etc. I have also assigned students to film their own instructional videos after producing one with them. We have also shot many assemblies, many of which were instructional.

I have a better idea now of what you will be shooting, though much more detail would help. If the teacher is facing the class and students are in groups of three facing the teacher, then you can’t have both these subjects facing the window light. If the entire teacher presentation is given first, the class could then move into their groups after an “intermission.” This would give you time to change your set up. Or you could figure out the best location at a tech rehearsal with just the teacher to set up both subjects.

You could re-post your further thought out classroom set up and ask the pros at the audio forum how to mike groups of threes. I will say if you need every student who talks to have clear well recorded sound, it’s a complex expensive set up that would require an audio tech and lots of gear.

I believe if you want student responses that are as unaffected by the camera as possible it would be better to zoom in to frame your shots from a fixed location. But if you dolly in it does look more natural than zooming so I would edit around the zooms. And yes sound then would be a problem. If you plant an omni mike within the semi-circle of three it won’t be as clear as a lav on each student. Ask on the audio forum. If you dolly in to the group of three the cam will need to be within three feet of the students to get ok sound. Not great just ok. A boom-mounted mike could work but is hardly unobtrusive. Plus the operator needs to be skilled. Make sure you get the right mike since many booms need high ceilings to avoid echoes. Many are for outdoor use.

A lav on the teacher will work fine but an ear-mounted mike will work better. Less chance of clothing noise, less chance of the teacher facing away from the mike. Also since it is an instructional video, the audio quality is very important to the presenation. The lavs that come with lower/mid-priced cordless kits are just ok. It would be fairly cheap to rent a good one for the shoot. But again leave time to test it.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/294107-REG/Shure_WCE6T_E6_Omnidirectional_EarSet_Microphone.html is one example of an ear-mounted mike. If you are going to rent ask the pros for the best.

You’ll need the one that works with your cordless kit; and as for color, tan is best for most skin tones. If the talent is very dark or very pale then match those colors.

Here’s one thought: You could shoot one group of kids that want to be in the video. They could each be miked into a 3-channel mixer. Again do a test with this to make sure the mixer is outputting at the right level for your cam. The special group of three could be lit and the camera placed well and tripod mounted after the intermission. You could set up another camera on full wide of the entire class to get some establishing shots. Or get a second cam operator to roam around.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

These are just some random thoughts because I’ve done a lot of shooting in classrooms.

Very important to have some time in this room before the shoot. Check out what happens at that time of day with the light and your camera settings. Get some test shots. Since it’s an instructional video rather than a doc, you might be able to set up the seating so you are not shooting directly into the windows and design your “run and gun” path with the camera.

I would imagine the biggest challenge will be sound. How will you mike all those kids?

What I have found in classroom settings is that students will get comfortable with the camera if the camera just becomes part of the event. 15 minutes in, they get relaxed with it. But if you start needing to make major adjustments to the room or worse telling subjects to move here or there in order to be captured properly then the filming becomes the focus.

I’d seriously consider mounting the cam on a tripod. If you can plant your mikes close to each source, you can zoom to frame your shots if the room is set up properly.

If the teacher will be your main source of sound, then do a rehearsal with the teacher, even if it’s just to train them on the proper use of whatever mike you are going to use. An ear mounted cordless mike is best for inexperienced performer. It moves with the head as opposed to a tie clip lav, which inexperienced performers will turn away from causing a sharp drop in sound levels. Also make sure the AC/heater is off and check the sound for interference before the shoot.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

I have one suggestion (if it’s not a feature already). It would be cool to subscribe to a thread (that is email notification) without having to post in it.

The filter idea makes udder (sic) sense.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

I think in the long run the mac pro will save your boss money. Laptops go in for repair a lot more often than towers. Extra storage with four internal sleds make adding hard drives much cheaper even if you also use an external raid. Backing up your system drive and backing up projects becomes a snap. And I think that mac pros remain current longer than a laptop. By adding more ram and internal cards they remain fast enough for FCP longer. Plus when something goes wrong on a tower you can usually get by with a little do it yourself. Firewire port gets fried–add another card. On a laptop, you’re looking at a service call. Out of warranty, its no longer worth fixing. Pretty sure it requires a new mother board. With a limited number of ports on the new MacBook pros, not sure what makes them pro. Except the 17″. I’m working now on a 15″ with the Express34 slot and I do edit with it. But my desk is a mess of wires and external devices. And it’s slower than a tower. I would tell your boss you need the tower. If he says no, then bring up the other option.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Interesting. So that’s the model that Apple turned to when they (just) revamped their education site license.

https://www.apple.com/education/licensingprogram/

Unlike the commercial versions, there is no upgrade price for FCS education version.

Typically the last two versions of the education FCS will amount to the same as one version retail and one upgrade. In essence, no discount at all.

The new ed site agreement requires a yearly fee that would cover any new versions. The problem is most schools do not have an on-going budget to maintain computers and software. Or anything else for that matter.

Each year, media teachers need and hope to get funding. So you’ll have labs all over the country with expired license agreements. And this includes the basic OS with Ilife too.

So Apple anticipates this by adding that when you renew the next year, it will be backdated to when the last yearly period expired. I wonder if they will try to crack down on expired licenses?

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with all this. Some admins and funding sources will simply tell media teachers to use window-based systems.

Or Apple may be being very smart and forcing educational institutions to start budgeting like the real world and plan for a yearly investment. This will mean that Apple will control the versions installed at educational institutions and since they will all be on the same OS and FCP versions, it will be easier for apple to trouble shoot and maintain their user base. Maybe they are hoping the funding sources will not balk since labs already have Apple computers in place and trained teachers as well. Time will tell.

The alternative is to buy individual Ed versions of the software (for more per seat) and upgrade when you find funding for it. In large labs this gets very costly.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Mark,

That is certainly my wish list: Fiberglass Board panels covered in cloth hung around room to absorb sound; TV studio tiles on floor; drop acoustic ceiling which would block out the echo-y rafters and skylight (though I’d like this as high as possible to allow for boom poles/shotguns), and a light grid.

However, there are low hanging AC vents, an exhaust vent that was installed over the old machinery, and a huge heater inside that looks like an outdoor unit — massive. Deafening when we need to turn it on.

But even these relatively inexpensive treatments (except perhaps for moving the heater to the roof) add up and I need funding for this. In the meantime, I’m willing to spring for some paint and whatever I can come up with to absorb sound. I’m also thinking of treating areas where we can shoot studio style, though a light kit would help before blacking everything out.

Thus my first question about what color someone would choose with a mess of light sources and cheap camcorders that need lots of light.

And though I knew that one goal is to be able to blacken the room (which I did at my previous school in a regular size classroom with gaffer’s tape and back art board over the indoor windows) I did not think of painting all the walls black. Also there, I had a 3 piece 650 watts Fresnel kit – mole Richardson — and soft banks for them.

I’ll start by painting the windows black and treating one area to use with the better cameras. I’ll hang my black cloth for a backdrop and try to cover the sides as well. Then I’ll lay down some tiles or grey carpet and hopefully can order a Fresnel light kit with this year’s funding if they don’t cut it from the budget.

I was left with some cheap photo light kits. The stands are cheap and could easily fall over (I have a few sand bags). I was able to order one c-stand. Need to blacken the room first before I can test them. I guess I could bounce them off a white board to soften them. But until the room is dark, I imagine, there’s not no point.

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Thanks Todd and Mark,

Very useful.
I’ll work on black on the large windows first. I’ll need to wait for them to get fixed; they don’t close all the way.
I considered daylight temp but it seems out of any budget I ever get.
I have a couple of good camcorders that we can use as a class. But when the class is broken into teams, they are using small consumer cams that like a lot of light. The white walls currently are too reflective and blow out the image; but if the windows are painted black, I think we’ll be ok.

I’m reluctant to paint everything black because we need to function as a class with reading and writing stuff. On the other hand, the overly reflective Imacs will like it.

Would it be effective to paint several shooting areas black and leave the rest of the room more reflective?

If the windows are black and we can block light from all sources then we should be able to use studio lights without competing with contaminants.

Sound treatment is another concern. Horrible acoustics in this room.
Will the epoxy help with this?—yes it’s a concrete floor.
If I use epoxy paint how long to dry, ready for traffic?
I already tried to get them to buy vinyl studio tiles TV GREY. But so far no budget.

Craig

OSX 10.5.7; MAC Book PRO (EARLY 2008); Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30, Sony vx2000/PD170, Canon xl2; Pana, Sony, and Canon consumer cams; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.