Craig Alan
Forum Replies Created
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Right. And if I set it to RTN the LEDs switch to output levels not input levels and certainly not individual input levels.
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Oh Oh Oh. That was for the pd170. I would say that +14 limiter out and +12 levels IN would make sense.
But I still want to know how to use the LEDs for input monitoring and the headphone for camera headphone out monitoring using the RTN IN on the mixer with a breakaway cable at the same time.
Isn’t that common practive to want to hear what the camera is recording while using the mixer’s meters to adjust levels on the fly?
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Ty,
User error again. Sort of. Though unless it’s mentioned on some other page, the manual does not indicate this: The knob that controls headphone monitoring options also controls the LED monitoring options. So, if I switch to “1” rather than ST I can ride the level as you suggested at 12 even though the limiter is kicking in at 10. The problem with this is I want to use a breakout cable with RTN so that I’m headphone monitoring from the camera headphone out not the mixer headphone out.
Is there a way of having the best of both, or do we just toggle back and forth? This will get very difficult with three inputs. I’m working with sound devices support on this.
But here’s the thing. If we ride the input levels at +12 and apply an output limiter at +10, that means the output signal almost always has the limiter applied. Is this best practice? I mean the LIM is always lit?
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Hi Ty,
Well I’m getting more used to the set up menu. I reset it to factory default in case I screwed something up. Reset to +10. Checked my tone out to -20 on cam. All good. LEDS won’t read above limiter thershold. While monitoring with headphones it sounds good and the camera’s meters are at a -10 -8 which is good. I wrote customer support to see if I can have the LEDs reflect the levels as if they are not being limited. It might be an option.
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Sorry Ty,
I’ve set the output limiter at +10. At that setting, unless I’m not setting some option correctly, the LEDs will not illuminate beyond +4. The +10 was set by getting both +8 and +12 to glow solid (page 16). Instead the LIM at the end of the row illuminates meaning the limiter kicks in. So how can I ride the fader at +12? It is reading about -10 to -8 on the Sony z7u.
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Get it got it good. Not a huge difference in how I’ve been doing it but the output threshold will be set lower and therefore allow me to run the fader a tad higher. Less chance of “distortion hits.”
Win win. Thanks Ty.OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Got it. Wow so basic. The SD302 manual seems to imply that the input limiter really protects from distortion and doesn’t let you modify it. But you’re saying neither limiter can do this fast enough for quick changes in input levels? So although it works there is a time lag in its effectiveness. Therefore if you set the threshold lower it will kick in sooner and more or less do the job intended by a higher level.
Most of my learning came from trial and error in controlled studio style shoots using a shure mixer. Everything went smooth until we were in run and gun situations and all equipment was left as is. Then, as you mention, we would end up with hits of distortion. So I adjusted by riding the inputs lower. Now the shure did not have the user friendly output limiters that the SD has. I called shure with help setting the defaults by modifying the little switches inside the unit. But the tech guy told me to leave it alone and just suggested to calibrate to lower readings on the sony. I’d be curious though if the sony indeed distorts at levels lower than 0. It seemed that way in playback. Regardless, I would need to boost the levels in post adding even more noise to the already noisy preamps. I switched to the Canon xl2 for events. Better lens better sound but not as friendly for mixed light low light situations.
All that said, would your suggested settings change at all using a Ki Pro for audio capture? Or are these setting pretty universal?
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Thanks Ty,
‘”as far as I can tell”, so you didn’t read the manual?’
I did, but not with complete comprehension, I gather.
I was referring to input limiters:
Input Limiters +18 dBu threshold
“There is no user-selectable adjustments to the Input Limiter’s threshold or its envelope.”The Limiter LED above each fader indicates input limiter kicking in, right?
My Advice: Set the limiter for +10
So you are referring to output limiters set to +10?
“and tickle the read at +12. That should cause readings of
-8 on the camera.”“+ 14 on the mixer meters, which means they will hit about -6dB on the camera.”
And that is assuming you set tone 0db to -20db on the camera.
Please Ty dummy this down. If you were riding levels at +12, why would you limit output at +10? Factory default is 20 dBu. Wouldn’t that be 0 db on the camera? Wouldn’t that make sense?
If you have a camera that won’t take audio to 0 dB without distorting. That’s a broken camera. Cameras do break. Values of components change. When that happens, calibration accuracy goes out the window for video and/or audio. What cameras do you have that can’t take up to 0dB?
The Sony PD150/PD170 would record with distortion below 0.
On the Canon HV30/40 I would say -6 would be a better upper limit than 0. Above that and a notch below 0, I hear distortion.
But these are just my observations. I have not run any hard tests. Though other end users report similar results.
One more question Ty, though I will set the output limiters as you suggest – if the input is limited to +18 doesn’t that mean the output does not exceed this limit?
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
I’ll do a test and see if it’s needed. Thanks.
Craig
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A. -
Thanks for mentioning that c-stands “transmit vibration poorly.” That gives me some hope that this might work.
In the past when I’ve used c-stands as boom pole holders — it was just that. Real boom poles with shock mounts. And only when I couldn’t find someone to operate the boom. And only aimed at a single seated talking head.
“rig some rubber band mounts between the mic and the arm”
This is where I need help. Do you have a picture or a link that can show me how to do this and still maintain the ability to aim the mikes at the desired angle?
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.