Chris Magid
Forum Replies Created
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thanks bob
good info
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Thanks for the anwsers.
720P certainly has the same aspect ratio…but this must be scaled up to fill the display or is there a pixel for pixel option here as well? None of the popular LCD monitors mention 720 in specs. Any opinions of how well they display 720?
Also do you think consumer television HDTVs do a better job with SD material than LCD computer monitors? Do the televisions have any additional processing which helps them produce better results?
If I am a working predominately with 720 material, is one solution a better fit?
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Maybe I was not clear.
The uncompressed option for Adrenaline ANNOUNCED by Avid is a PCI card which is installed directly in the HPxw8200…not the BOB.
Hence the mess.
chris magid
rtvf -
Warning!!!
The Adrenaline HD board is COMPRESSED ONLY! This is the DNX HD option which installs into the Avid DNA break out box.
It would not surprise me to see Avid offer some very agressive deals since this board and associated workflow stacks up very poorly when compared to very flexible uncompressed and even dual link options from BMD and others. Most under $2500.00
I am not knocking the DNX HD codec. It is impressive. What I am critical of is the $10000.00 price of the board which does it. BTW it does not support embedded HD-SDI audio.
There is to be a long awaited SINGLE STREAM UNCOMPRESSED PCI card for Adrenaline. Can’t remember what the long rumored price was to be. Something North of $3000.00. AND IT WILL REQUIRE THE DNX HD OPTION BE INSTALLED. WHERE IS THIS BOARD? WHEN IS IT TO BE RELEASED?
So, you are looking at least 13,000.00 to add a single stream of uncompressed HD. Or 10,000 to add the compressed DNX board. Pretty damn close to 45,000.00 for a very restrictive and sloppy single stream HD system.
Keep in mind with an additional firwire card in the PCI bus, Adrenaline HD can already work with HD100 media in its native codec. This is also the way you bring in DV50 material
And remember this is a completely different from the DV25 worflow which uses a firewire port on the Adrenaline BOB.
So forget the money. Can you see what a mess this blueprint is. Three completely different points and interfaces of input, in three different locations. Not only does it make a mess of cabling and patching, it also restricts the hardware’s ability to transcode or easily move data. Your decks will have to be fully optioned out to do thngs like digitize HD100 as uncompressed or as a DNX resolution. Also, I wonder how well this is going to work in practice.
Don’t forget, Avid’s HD workflow in Adrenaline and Symphony Nitris is very heavy handed and restrictive.
This all goes back to the original NAB unvieling of Adrenaline, Avid’s whiz bang future proof Media Composer for the next generation. We knew then the entire fire wire based architecture was a farce. You can see it in the way HD is being hacked into a system which truly was not designed for it. The Adrenaline features which were touted heavily upon it’s launch, simply are not there or do not work at all when it comes to HD.
chris magid
RTVF -
The deck cannot do an ACCURATE assemble edit. Period. That is the issue. Not RS-422 control. There is far more needed to get the deck to insert or assemble edit than the remote contol “electronics”. Items like a flying erase head, facilities to set timecode for record, etc. All add expense, weight and heat.
What good is full record control when you will not be able to accurately target your inpoint? A nice luxury, but it isn’t going to make a deck assemble edit.
There has been plenty of PRO gear sold without edit capability. While the primary use of the 1200A is as a NLE feeder deck, the 1200A is a perfectly good RECORDER. Just not an EDIT RECORDER. This is the exact same case with the popular half rack SD93 Pro50 deck. And with some DvCam decks. And with a few BetaSP decks.
There is a work around…and that is a true crash edit while recording external timecode from your NLE. Gives you a 100% solid master. And I think this can even work over firewire.
There are also full rack, “studio” VTR models which add full edit capability and other goodies.
While it would be nice to throw the deck into record remotely, reaching over to push a button is not really that big of deal.
Right now the 1200A is THE CHEAPEST REAL HD play/record option.
And even the 1200A’s simple record ability is worth the price premium over the player only J series HD CAM decks. Which by the way have very poor, slow, delicate transports. While comparing formats like HDCAM to HD100 may be apples to oranges. The market segment in which these decks occupy is INDENTICAL. NLE or dub feeders.
And there is no inexpensive way to record HDCAM, crash edit or not.
There are good reasons to choose either format…and sometimes that choice is made for you.
Sure I wish we all could get more for less. But for the moment being able to edit and RECORD HD with cheap decks and even cheaper NLEs is pretty good.
Chris Magid
rtvf -
Just a few notes…in no particular order.
1) Make sure you are running the latest AVID APPROVED drivers for your Nvidia card. They came with the application or can be downloaded. Version 67.22 is a safe one to use.
2) If you are using a 980XGL you can expect degraded performance. This is the original Adrenaline Nvidia card. Release notes state it is not really up to task for newer releases. You may get some boost by updating your OpenGl card to the 1100. Anything newer would require a switch in CPU.
3) Switch CPUs. Upgrade to a HPxw8200. This has the newer PCI Express graphics slot which will allow for the latest approved video card…the Quadro FX 1400.00 We were experiencing the same issue of slowness after moving to the 2.x releases. This is what fixed it for us. BIG DIFFERENCE.
4) 2.1.6 is a buggy release and that may affect performance. The latest is 2.1.8. So far, so good. I would move to this release. STAY AWAY for 2.1.7.
5) Make sure you have done all the little things to optimize your system. The Avid manuals list things you should do to WindowsXP to make it more Avid friendly.
That should get you started. If you can do #3, DO IT. You will not be sorry. Deals can be found on refurbed CPUS.
chris magid
rtvf -
The deck cannot do an ACCURATE assemble edit. Period. That is the issue. Not RS-422 control. There is far more needed to get the deck to insert or assemble edit than the remote contol “electronics”. Items like a flying erase head, facilities to set timecode for record, etc. All add expense, weight and heat.
What good is full record control when you will not be able to accurately target your inpoint? A nice luxury, but it isn’t going to make a deck assemble edit.
There has been plenty of PRO gear sold without edit capability. While the primary use of the 1200A is as a NLE feeder deck, the 1200A is a perfectly good RECORDER. Just not an EDIT RECORDER. This is the exact same case with the popular half rack SD93 Pro50 deck. And with some DvCam decks. And with a few BetaSP decks.
There is a work around…and that is a true crash edit while recording external timecode from your NLE. Gives you a 100% solid master. And I think this can even work over firewire.
There are also full rack, “studio” VTR models which add full edit capability and other goodies.
While it would be nice to throw the deck into record remotely, reaching over to push a button is not really that big of deal.
Right now the 1200A is THE CHEAPEST REAL HD play/record option.
And even the 1200A’s simple record ability is worth the price premium over the player only J series HD CAM decks. Which by the way have very poor, slow, delicate transports. While comparing formats like HDCAM to HD100 may be apples to oranges. The market segment in which these decks occupy is INDENTICAL. NLE or dub feeders.
And there is no inexpensive way to record HDCAM, crash edit or not.
There are good reasons to choose either format…and sometimes that choice is made for you.
Sure I wish we all could get more for less. But for the moment being able to edit and RECORD HD with cheap decks and even cheaper NLEs is pretty good.
Chris Magid
rtvf -
Yeah, sorry for any confusion. Thinking about all the variations and workflows for HD gives me a bad case of “tired head”. Honestly, some of it is at the limit of my understanding.
But, I know the HD 1700 plays and records frame rate flags and other meta data and the HD 1200A can only play that information. This difference would have to manifest itself somewhere. So, like the insert edit issue, this is one of those little known 1200A gotchas. Small print. And maybe no big deal.
Not sure what sorts of situations this would be a problem in. I could imagine a few situations like sub masters, melt reels, camera tape dubs or in house library reels.
And I don’t know the techincal reason why the 1200a would be restricted from recording the flags which identify off frame rates (seems odd to me). I know that the innovative varrible frame rates need this information. It tells the NLE (FCP) or frame rate converter what is going on. But I also thought it comes into play for some 24p workflows (not 23.98).
Perhaps Michael Phillips or some other HD expert could chime in with the real story in place of my speculation.
Chris Magid
RTVF -
Oliver,
Thanks for the confirmation.
Also, beware that the 1200a does not record any of the special “flagging” or metadata some frame rates of HD100 need. So, while you have a good master to play for air, it may not be a good edit or even upconvert source in the future.
But for most purposes the 1200a is a great deck and great value. Yes, it would be nice to have assemble or insert.
I am kind of amazed that there is professional format HD VTRs at this price point. I did not expect HD to be this cheap, this soon.
Chris Magid
RTVF -
Well…WOW. What a firey thread.
I think we are lucky there is such a low cost HD option as the 1200A. I wish it had insert and assemble too, BUT it is a pro format HD VTR that can be had for 25K, well equipped, if you don’t mind shopping. It does play and record. Which is much more than the Sony play only J series decks. 1200A also gives you legacy DVCPro and Pro50 support.
There is some additional engineering and components like a flying erase head, which would increase cost.
Did anyone think HD was going to get this cheap, this fast?
So, here is how I would solve the problem on an Avid Adrenaline. Perhaps there is an equivalent work flow for the video hardware you use. I would simply take the LTC out of the Adrenaline and patch it to the TimeCode in on the 1200A. Add a little pre-roll to your sequence and when you crash in, the deck should be recording video, audio and timecode from your NLE sequence.
Chris Magid
RTVF