Avid Adrenaline won’t insert edit to DVCPRO HD

[Chris Magid]

I do not believe that the 1200A can INSERT edit. Almost sure. I don’t even think it can do an assemble edit.

I am certain that all Avids currently only support crash record with this deck.

You could rent a HD1700, which should do the trick, if supported by Avid.

OR…since the 1200A has a TC IN…you could lay your show off in one pass using the Adrenaline’s LTC out to get solid time code. Just a guess, as I have never used Avid’s crash record setting and not sure how you would set accurate time code in a crash situation.

Chris Magid
RTVF

[Oliver Peters]

[chris magid] “I do not believe that the 1200A can INSERT edit. Almost sure. I don’t even think it can do an assemble edit.”

This has been debated a number of times in other forums and the Panasonic rep posted repeatedly that the 1200A cannot insert or assemble as it has no flying erase heads. Some folks have been able to get it to do an edit that looks like an assemble over FireWire, but according to Panasonic, there is no guarantee that this will truly be a clean, uncorrupted edit that will play without a glitch on another machine. Crash records are your best bet with the 1200A. Or if you do this type of “assemble”, only do it between black and bars at the head of the tape.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Chris Magid]

Oliver,

Thanks for the confirmation.

Also, beware that the 1200a does not record any of the special “flagging” or metadata some frame rates of HD100 need. So, while you have a good master to play for air, it may not be a good edit or even upconvert source in the future.

But for most purposes the 1200a is a great deck and great value. Yes, it would be nice to have assemble or insert.

I am kind of amazed that there is professional format HD VTRs at this price point. I did not expect HD to be this cheap, this soon.

Chris Magid
RTVF

[Oliver Peters]

[chris magid] “Also, beware that the 1200a does not record any of the special “flagging” or metadata some frame rates of HD100 need. So, while you have a good master to play for air, it may not be a good edit or even upconvert source in the future.”

Chris,

I don’t know what this means. The 1200A records 720/60p or 1080/30i with the DV100 codec. Only the Varicam transport records with flags as far as I know, but it records 60fps to tape. If you shoot Varicam for 24fps, you can capture from a 1200A player through a Kona2, for example, and extract the 24 true frames, so obviously the deck passes these flags, if needed. You cannot record 24fps back to the deck, unless the NLE adds pulldown, because it must record 60/30. Which flags does it need to record and what other deck records these? Also if there are embedded flags, such as from a Varicam, these might actually pass in a FW-to-FW dub, though I’m only guessing on that one.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Chris Magid]

Yeah, sorry for any confusion. Thinking about all the variations and workflows for HD gives me a bad case of “tired head”. Honestly, some of it is at the limit of my understanding.

But, I know the HD 1700 plays and records frame rate flags and other meta data and the HD 1200A can only play that information. This difference would have to manifest itself somewhere. So, like the insert edit issue, this is one of those little known 1200A gotchas. Small print. And maybe no big deal.

Not sure what sorts of situations this would be a problem in. I could imagine a few situations like sub masters, melt reels, camera tape dubs or in house library reels.

And I don’t know the techincal reason why the 1200a would be restricted from recording the flags which identify off frame rates (seems odd to me). I know that the innovative varrible frame rates need this information. It tells the NLE (FCP) or frame rate converter what is going on. But I also thought it comes into play for some 24p workflows (not 23.98).

Perhaps Michael Phillips or some other HD expert could chime in with the real story in place of my speculation.

Chris Magid
RTVF

[Scott Davis]

I have used the 1200A with FCP and you can fudge an assemble edit over FW. It is not frame accurate, nor is it dependable, and yes there are weird glitch stuff like TC breaks in a Master. We did it though.

[Oliver Peters]

[Scott Davis] “It is not frame accurate, nor is it dependable, and yes there are weird glitch stuff”

Then that’s hardly an assemble edit. It’s a crash record. There’s just less disturbance since it’s data over FW instead of video over SDI.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Bob Zelin]

this is from the Panasonic Product Manager of Panasonic on the AJ-HD1200A.
I don’t give a crap what anybody says they “can” do –
Bob Zelin

Hi Bob,

Sorry to say, and contrary to what others say, the AJ-HD1200A will NOT assemble edit. Try as they might, it is neither frame accurate or capable to sync up to an editing system. I have been told by many that the way to get back to the machine from FCP HD is to “Print to Tape”. But unfortunately until Apple supports TC back to the VTR, you can only “crash” record hoping to get close to TC 1:00:00:00.

You may want to contact Apple directly or go to a chat room like Creative Cow.net.

Thanks for asking.

Jeff Merritt

[Scott Davis]

[Bob Zelin] “this is from the Panasonic Product Manager of Panasonic on the AJ-HD1200A.
I don’t give a crap what anybody says they “can” do – “

I agree totaly, I didn’t mean to inadvertently call a “crash record” an assemble. Out of 40-50 Print to tapes, I only had one that started on the correct timecode and that I think was just plain luck.

Scott Davis