Bryson Jones
Forum Replies Created
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Ben, if you search for catalog size or anything related to the catalog structure, it’s there. I linked to a couple the other day.
Let me run this down again here as well.
There is not a lot of documentation for CatDV that is specific to workflows. The reason for this is that Squarebox makes a tool, not a workflow. If you buy a shovel, there is not a manual as they don’t know if you are shoveling sh%t or dirt or grain and they don’t really mind what you do with it and in each case, the instructions will vary.
Folks like Kevin, JB&A and our company come in, look at what you want to shovel (to continue the metaphor) and lay out a process to get it all into the bin or grain silo or dump, depending on what you are shoveling. We also tell you whether you should get any in your mouth or not. 😉
The reason the pros here are sometimes vague is that we don’t want you to go and base thousands of hours of logging or transcoding work on a premise that can’t possibly account for all your variables. Storage, use-case, folder structure, server OS, codecs, staff count, deadlines/timelines, editing system, delivery platforms, web infrastructure… I can go on but you get it.
Short answer… and only my opinion, put no more than 1,000 items in a catalog. Some clients put less than 100. I have catalogs currently on systems that have less than 5 clips and some that have over 4,000. All are correct… and all are wrong.
The reasons I say those numbers are based on a 15 minute training/consultation conversation and demonstration that I have with clients. I learned it from Kevin, mostly, and have added to it over the years with my experience. That, added with a few hours of consultation over the course of a few weeks helps us learn your facility and thus deliver a “best-practice” for you. The number we give you takes into account CatDV’s structure, the client’s infrastructure, the level of sophistication with asset management concepts of the staff and even the depth of metadata, amount of thumbnails and media format.
If you search you will see that others dispute these numbers and we all have our own reasons.
Final thought, according to Squarebox, any number is “correct” it is workflow dependent and that is maddening to a client on the outside and easy to determine for a client who has the software running in their facility.
Engage with someone to evaluate your needs, plan your integration and maybe even give you some training before you even buy a single item. (It’s ok to pay them for that too.) That will protect you from spending your company’s money on something that may not work in your workflow. I say this not to grow my business but to protect yours.
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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Worker Node can handle this using variables. You may need some command line work but this is completely do-able.
I can’t really lay this out on a forum since you can potentially over-write data in any automation but I will say that duplicating clips can cause problems.
May I offer the idea that you simply record a list of the emails a clip was sent to in an additional field? That seems better since having an extra copy of a clip can result in people adding metadata to the wrong clip record. Basic workflow –
Email is entered into field A to denote that a clip should be delivered.
Workflow runs and the email is sent, the clip is tagged to be sent to them (however you want to do that, maybe copy the email address into a second field (B) that you use to denote that a clip needs to be sent?) The email address is also appended to the list of past recipients (field C).
When the person (or script) processes the clip or sends it, they or it, clears field B and enters the action into a log (Field D).
C and D keep the log of what happened and A and B fire the steps of the script.
The same workflow can be applied to the “copy clips” workflow but you may need to use the command line to send the metadata between clips.
Hit up your integrator or the Worker Node manual for more on the CLI but this is very possible.
The take-away for folks who may be newer to scripting is that notice that we began talking about 2 fields in 2 separate clip records and ended up with 4 fields so that we can track status and history of a single clip. This is common in automation but can add to the complexity of your system. Most of the time these additional fields are hidden from most users (sometimes all users) but they are critical and a far better way to track history than creating multiple copies of clips and moving them around.
This is why there is such a jump in complexity (and price) when you get into automating video systems.
Hope this helps,
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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Full Disclosure: NSA (My company, integrates both CatDV and Cantemo systems.)
They are actually fairly different in approach.
For instance:
CatDV has a client app, Cantemo is all done from a browser interface interacting with a single server.
CatDV uses separate apps for Client, Server and Worker/Automation and these can span over multiple machines or live on one.
CatDV runs on Mac OSX, Linux or Windows for Server and OSX & Windows for automation & client.
Cantemo runs on all OS’s for clients (obviously) and Linux for Server.
Cantemo, in my opinion, has a lot more in common with more traditional DAM systems whereas CatDV is more of a hybrid and focuses more on production asset management. There are benefits to both, depending on the environment and use.
We’re actually evaluating several sites where they will likely use both due to the fact that they cover such a wide area of use between the two systems. And with the pricing, you can buy “one of each” so to speak and still be far under the price of a traditional “Big-Iron” DAM.
That said, Cantemo is priced a bit above the typical CatDV base deployment.
As always, this is a bit more than can be discussed on a forum. DAM systems are so specific to the environment. I’d contact the US Reps and get a demo of both products and you’ll have a better feel for the two as they relate to your particular system. I personally feel like Cantemo is aimed more at the Final Cut Server user rather than the CatDV user as far as use case. The philosophies & methodologies are very different.
Speaking of… is there a generic DAM board on the Cow? Seems like that might be a lively forum.
Hope this helps you on your way.
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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It’s an older app and has been some what left as is as the product line has moved more to the larger DAM space.
I’d look into some of the more full featured capture apps/systems for what you are looking for. Digital Rapids, Just:In, Softron etc.
Live Capture is more aimed at the “DV” side of CatDV.
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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I’ve never seen any problems with frame accuracy.
A lot depends on your proxy format of course. Most web proxy formats aren’t frame accurate themselves so you are limited by that. I’ve not pushed it but it’s certainly not a half second, more like within a frame or so and from what I’ve seen on ProRes, it’s right on.
CatDV is a surprisingly good little editor although almost none of my clients use it for that strangely. (They tend to be more focused on logging and traditional MAM functions.)
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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You’re welcome.
In no particular order. Check these out.
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/278/701
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/278/1073#1088
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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Can you give us some more info?
Specifically, what OS are you on? What versions of the CatDV apps and Server? What server hardware and OS are you running on and what is you primary editing storage. As to the other questions, see below.
Define “lots of licenses” 5, 10, 50, 100?
– i get some sort of java error when i try to import a large amount of files.. the only solution i have found was to import small amounts at a time in multiple catalogs… is there a way around this?
“Large amount” 1,000? 10,000 or like 200? There are a few threads on here about catalog sizes and how to manage them.
i have tried going into advanced settings and upping the memory usage, but did not seem to help on catdv 9 and when i try on version 10 the application won’t open anymore and i have to re-install it….What OS and Java versions are you on? Most likely this is a support issue for JB&A or Squarebox.
-Next problem… same thing different error. i import a number of files and CatDV just shuts down. Guessing its a memory issue again, but not sure.
Again, “number of files”, let us know and read that thread.
-other issues are archiving on Cache-A…..
You gotta take this to Cache-A support.
Bottom line, this likely has a good bit to do with workflow. (Yes, it is lame to have to say that and I promise it’s not a cop-out.) I’d contact your reseller and see if they can help you sort this out.
If there is no reseller to help, I’d discuss getting some workflow consulting from them or JB&A to make this all work together.
Sorry you’re having trouble. Some of these issues might be genuine tech support things (the crashes and non-launching could be java or OS related for instance and the Cache-A sounds fishy.) but this could also just be configuration errors or overloading the system. (Check the Cache-A site for their archive job time estimates to see if you are in line with expectations.)
Bottom line, there is hope. These systems have been successfully deployed all over the US and ROW. You’ll get it sorted.
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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Finding a loggers hours for the day is very easy. Your trainer should have shown you how to use the advanced search functions which include very specific date searches or, if you are using smart folders you can sort your views by any metadata field in the view, either method will work fine.
If that wasn’t covered, and you have support, you can contact SquareBox or JB&A to walk you through these steps. (I think, I’m not sure if they cover training issues.) Can any of the Squarebox or JB&A guys speak to this? Are basic user training issues covered by support?
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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Khashyar,
It really becomes a financial consideration for most clients. We tend to do it by the value of the footage and the time saved. That generally means that for b-roll, it’s light and perhaps an interview with a main character or personality might be a full transcription.
Think of the RedBull Stratos footage. High value, rare footage, I’d spend the time to log that minute by minute. Footage of me at Disneyland? Maybe I’d just note the rides or area we were in and some funny or cute shots of my wife. Right?
There are so many factors. Also, is there a large team working on the footage, or is it a small group of producers who have all seen or shot the footage? If it’s a small team, then they may not need detailed logs, (Most producers know the footage they shot better than I could ever log it.) Whereas a large team who aren’t watching all of the footage might need a full log so that they can be aware of the action or subject matter.
Finally, how good is the logger? I always say that a producer’s notes are far more valuable than an intern who may not understand the focus of a project. Something that seems minor to a person from the outside could be huge to someone who’s intimately acquainted with the project. (Bruce Willis’ character is dead!? What?!?, for instance.)
In the end, there is no formula, it is trial and error but for finances we tend to have some loggers work and track their progress and then extrapolate that out through the footage to see if the budget will support the time. A sports league probably has a bigger budget than say a indie Doc so they might spend more time on a piece than Doc producer would or could.
On the flip-side of that, if you are spending precious hours watching and searching for clips to tell a story, then the time might be worth the money. Only a producer/storyteller can make that call in the end.
There are some best practices that you should observe, no matter what the budget. For instance just one example it to set a controlled vocabulary for keywords so that if you are searching for something all loggers are logging it the same.
Corvette = Vette = Sports Car = Hot Rod, which is the correct term for this production.
Things like this make the difference between effective work and wasting hundreds of hours logging things incorrectly. The per-hour rate for logging is high, be careful and spend that time/money wisely.
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com
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It is not, I’m assuming it’s a Java limitation.
However, command-L will open the file in the quicktime player and you can have your cake and eat it too.
You can’t use this for logging or marking, (Verbatim logger does that) but you can edit metadata while you watch full screen this way.
bryson
bryson “at” northshoreautomation.com
northshoreautomation.com