Bob Zelin
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COW Coins
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the HDMI port is for the web gui output or if you want to use something like Plex server for playing out movies.
It is not another output of your Mac, and it is not a replacement for a Blackmagic or AJA product. The QNAP is a generic NAS product, and a lot of the applications are consumer applications. The HDMI port is one of those applications. The QNAP is a great shared storage system. IT’s not a replacement for an AJA, Blackmagic or Mac graphics card.Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
Michael Juhl’s system is now working properly with writes over 600 MB/sec and READs at 800 MB/sec.
It’s amazing how things work correctly, when they are setup properly.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
I have benchmarks for the TVS-873e –
using a Sonnet Solo 10G on either a thunderbolt 3 iMac or thunderbolt 3 MacBook Pro, you get
550 MB/sec WRITE, and 1000 MB/sec READ as per AJA System Test or Blackmagic Disk Speed Test.
I demonstrated this exact setup at the Maxx Digital booth at NAB 2018. The only variable here is that
I used a QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 card, because the new cheaper QXG-10G1T was not available at the time.This evening, I will work with Mike Jeul to get this system working correctly (he has the TVS-873e with the QXG-10G1T).
I will report back.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
Hi Simon –
replies below –Simon writes –
I was originally planning to use the 831x as it seems to do all I needed, but the local store in HK said it had been upgraded to the 832x and the DDR4 ram seemed a good choice for wider data throughput. It wasn’t a budget decision, as much as it had the features I was looking for and a low power usage and low temperature compared to other boxes which seemed to add unnecessary bells and whistles likes speakers, usb, thunderbolt etc.REPLY – for data, the TS-831x works fine, and I am sure that for data, the TS-832x works fine. If you are simply using it to transfer files over the internet – nothing will be as slow as your internet connection, so it’s fine. But to actually work off the TS-831x will be a struggle. While I have not tried the TS-832x, based on the fact that it has the Annapurna processors, instead of Intel or AMD, I ASSUME, that it will be as slow as the TS-831x. This is my assumption. I have not tried the TS-832x. I suggest the TVS-873e which is sold for an almost identical price. For 10G connection, you need the optional QXG-10G1T card, which is very inexpensive. I have personally tested this unit and it is very good. On this forum below, you will see a user who recently purchased the TVS-873e, and he is complaining that he is STILL getting slow speeds. This user has not contacted me directly, and asked me to log into his system, so I cannot tell you exactly why he is getting slow speeds on the TVS-873e, but I assure you this is a good unit. Of course, there are better QNAPs, for more money, as well.
Simon writes –
As for the amazon processors, I was sceptical but there were few reviews for the 832x and it seemed a solid next step from the 831x which has lots of good reviews. But have learnt not to automatically assume ‘intel inside’ means that it’s good.Which 8 disc box would you recommend instead?
REPLY – for a low budget box, the TVS-873e is very good. If you need a 10G connection, you must purchase the QNAP QXG-10G1T option card for this unit. As I stated above, there is another user on this forum who is complaing about the poor speeds of this unit, but he has not contacted me, so I cannot tell you why he is unhappy with his unit.
SIMON WRITES –
The 859pro is from 2010, but doesn’t support 4.3.4 (only up 4.2.6) which seems to be needed for a lot of the new features like qsync (looks like a great app, does it deliver in the real world?), and it doesn’t appear to support bigger drives than 4tb. The other problem is you can’t expand the raid pool – hence the need to buy a new box (to backup the data), before replacing the current 2tb drives and relegate the 859 to offsite backup/duplication.REPLY – while you can create a “thick volume” with the modern QTS, I almost never do this. To achieve maximum speed, I create a single static volume, and when I add an additional box, you just create another static volume, and this mounts on your desktop as “QNAP1” and “QNAP2”. You can certainly create a single “thick volume” storage pool to have only one volume mount from the 2 boxes, but I rarely do this, because of speed and safety (in case of failure – I like having the boxes separate). As for drive size, you can install 12 TB Seagate IronWolf or 12 TB WD Pro drives without issue on modern boxes. As for the old boxes – will Hybrid Backup Sync RTRR from QTS 4.3.4 work with your old QTS 4.2.6 Backup Station ? I have no idea. This is like saying “is my Mac OS X Snow Leopard operating system compatible with networking with a new macOS High Sierra system”. Why would anyone even think like this ?
SIMON WRITES –
The 853 does appear to support 4.3.4 and 8tb drives so can offer duplication and backup.REPLY – then it should work. A modern QNAP will not know if it’s talking to an “old” QNAP if the OS is the same – particularly if you are simply transferring data with Hybrid Backup Sync RTRR.
Simon Writes –
I’m fine with buying a router to accomplish my needs and will look at your suggestion and look to understand more how it works – ethernet has been fine speed wise, but having 10GBe compatibility/functionality seems to be a good future proofing idea.REPLY – the only reason to purchase the router is to easily open ports for RTRR (port 8899) or QVPN. Any router can be opened – it’s just I don’t know how to do most routers. Modern routers like the Synology RT series, or Netgear Nighthawk series are VERY easy to do port forwarding on, and support UPnP function from the QNAP NAS boxes (I am sure that Synology does the same). The only reason to do a router like this is if you want to have the backup QNAP in a distant location, not on your local network. You will have no choice but to either figure out how to open ports on the router that you own, or get an “easy to use” modern router.
Simon Writes –
You mention a budget of only $900 but forget the 16x 8tb drives (8 for the new box and 8 for the 853) which adds another $4,000 to the bill. I am budget flexible, but everything spent has to be earned and sadly digital doesn’t pay anywhere near as well as print used to.REPLY – you are correct. And what is amazing is that the cost of SATA drives cost more money than the actual QNAP box or Synology box. You have to remember that the cost of doing a shared storage system today is cheaper than ever in history – and as you point out – the budgets today are lower than ever in history.
Simon writes –
I do look to invest in the business. We still use the G5 because of some custom bi-lingual software that makes part of the job very easy – and because it just works. While our 2008 Macpro workhorses with ssd’s are still very fast and productive.REPLY – what can I say – I still use my 2009 Mac Pro every day. It works. But the G5 is an antique – pre 2006.
Simon writes –
When we hopefully get bigger we will undoubtedly look for external help, but part of the reason for trying to work it out ourselves this time is it makes us look at the processes and understand what we need to do with the hardware but also what we have to do as staff, freelancers etc to achieve what we need and the processes and workflows we need to change/adjust.REPLY – I am always available.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
replies below from Bob Zelin –
I’m looking to revamp our storage options – currently we have a QNAP 859pro+ (8x2tb in raid 6, 11tb used) and a QNAP853 (8x2tb raid 6, 8tb used) connected via ethernet network to mac g5s and macbook pro laptops. All files are stored on the 859pro with the 853 used as a backup.
REPLY – Hi Simon –
I am looking at the QNAP website. I do not see a QNAP 859_ pro or a QNAP 853 as current models. I have been dealing with QNAP since mid 2015. How old are the models. And a Mac G5 ? Are you kidding me ? The Mac Pro was released in 2006. PLEASE tell me that you are not actually using a pre 2005 MX g5 to make a living. A child in high school would not be using a Mac G5.We will be adding a storage unit which allows the option of having offsite backup via internet – we have 100/30mb access but could get gigabit.
REPLY – IF you could update your operating system to QTS 4.3.4 ( I have no idea if you can do this with the obsolete QNAP 859 or QNAP 853) – you would run QNAP Hybrid Backup Sync, and use the RTRR (real time remote replication) to backup from QNAP # 1 to QNAP # 2. In order to accomplish this, you would use a router that had the ability to open up ports (like a Synology RT2600ac) so that port 8899 was open, to allow for remote access over the internet.
1) can you even update the firmware of your QNAP’s to the modern operating system, and 2) are you willing to purchase a modern router that will allow you to do backups over the internet.But we’ll also hope to be doing more overseas photography and design work so would like to be able to add overseas access from a macbook (photos are currently uploaded to smugmug).
Thinking of adding a qnap832x with 8x 8tb or 6tb disks in raid 6 format (36-48tb) to use in the main office – 4-6 people accessing across ethernet mainly photos and graphic design, no video as yet but if possible would like to future proof that option in the upgrade. Then move the existing data to the new machine and use the old qnaps as offsite backup.
REPLY – the QNAP TS-832x is a brand new unit that uses the horrible Amazon Anapurna processors. Please tell me why you are choosing the absolutely cheapest QNAP storage solution instead of a more professional solution from QNAP (or another brand). You want to future proof, but you want to spend the absolute least amount of money ?
here is the QNAP TS-832X on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/TS-832X-8G-US-High-performance-Network-Hardware-Encryption/dp/B07CVGXML4
$932 is your “big investment” in your company for a high performance box ?As a creative person i’m not great with linear thinking – have i missed something?
How do i incorporate secure overseas access via vpn from a macbook pro? without risk of compromising the storage and the rest of the network?REPLY –
within the last several days, I have seen multiple posts that seem absolutely ridiculous. Everyone wants to do everything, and wants to spend absolutely NO money in making this happen. As a creative person – NO – AS A BUSINESS PERSON – you need to INVEST in your business to be able to generate income. I can easily setup
QNAP QVPN for you so that other people can access your QNAP, but 1) you must have a router that can open ports easily so I can have remote access to the QNAP, and 2) the security of your network is based on the security of your passwords. If I have a user name of “admin” and a password of “admin” then I can hack into your NAS, but if you create secure names and password, and separate folders for your freelancers, then all of this can be accomplished using the QNAP (and a professional router like the Synology RT2600ac).Of course, you need to HIRE SOMEONE to accomplish this for you.
AND think about having a modern QNAP that can accept the current firmware updates to allow for Hybrid Backup Sync to work.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
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Hi –
well, I gave you a “starter list”, but you posted this. The Multidock is an SSD card reader. If you get the more expensive Hyperdeck recorders, instead of the less expensive Teranex mini recorder that I listed, you will need to pop out the SSD’s and put them into something so you can edit this video on your computer with your editing software. The Multidock is a 4 SSD reader that is rack mounted.but this is a good example of “the other things” that you might need. When you get the recorder – they don’t give you the SSD’s (or the SD cards for the Teranex).
Same with the camera. What you have specified is a camera body. No lens, no viewfinder, nothing. Just the camera body.
I am not sure of what background you have with equipment list this. This is not a “home theater system” that comes complete with all the cables, so you can start listening to music as soon as it arrives. Putting together a TV studio requires a lot of items, and the cost starts to add up very quickly. Even though Blackmagic has made it possible to do this for less money than ever, there are still lots of items that are involved. This is why this is a CAREER for most people involved, not a side hobby.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
ok –
buy this switcher –
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemtelevisionstudiobuy this recorder to record your shows –
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/hyperdeckstudiominibuy this monitor so you can see what you are doing –
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/smartview4kyour mics go into a mixer like this –
https://mackie.com/sites/default/files/PRODUCT%20RESOURCES/SPECS/Spec_Sheets/1402VLZ4_SS.pdfand the output of the mixer plugs into the audio input of your switcher. The switcher will send the video with the embedded audio into the recorder, and you have a completed show.
This is a very simple overview. You will find that once you do this, there are lots of “little pieces” like cables, AC strips, headphones, etc. to make all of this work.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
so exactly what is your question – what Blackmagic gear do you purchase ?
Are you going to have camera people, or do you want to use PTZ cameras.
Do you have mics, a mixer, tripods, panheads, lenses for the cameras ? Do you want Blackmagic cameras ?
You need to say what you want. To get a Blackmagic ATEM switcher is very inexpensive. To get a Blackmagic Web Presenter for streaming is very inexpensive. But there are a lot of pieces to a production system. Heck – there are a lot of pieces to a single camera. You need to say exactly what you have, and what you want.Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
Hi Mark –
before I answer, let me re stress to you. The TS-831X is not the box you want to own for editing. For a cheap QNAP, the TVS-873e is a much better purchase, with the new 10G QXG-10G1T card ( which is a single port card).
But since you are bringing up link aggregation – the dual port card is $359 US – the QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550.A dual port card can be setup for LACP (as long as your switch supports LACP IEEE 802.3x, which is link aggregation control protocol, not static trunking). And yes, the Netgear XS708T does support this. So your overall bandwidth will be 20 Gb/sec, not 10Gb/sec from QNAP to the switch. But yes – no matter what, you are at the mercy of 8 drives, which will max out at about 1100 MB/sec. For a small workgroup, I never bother with LACP (and LACP only works from server to server, and server to switch, and switch to switch, NOT client to switch). I only use LACP for large installations with 16 and 24 bay shared storage systems. For a small workgroup, the single 10G connection will be plenty of bandwidth for you.
Remember, I can help you with all of this !
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com