[Bj Ahlen]

Adolfo is right about the number of bits being about color space resolution, and floating point is higher resolution than 16-bit video even (which is really 3 x 16 = 48 bits).

16-bit video can accurately represent 281 trillion colors.

Floating point color uses a value between 0 and 1 for each color channel, usually expressed as a decimal number. Because of the exponent part in this, the number of colors is virtually unlimited.

[Pinnacle] Liquid Chrome handles uncompressed 10-bit for abt $20K.

Vegas handles 10-bit uncompressed codecs such as the excellent BMD codec without trouble, but for assembly and simple cuts only. Effects and transitions are processed internally in high bit depths, but the output is always truncated to 8-bit RGB. I shoot only uncompressed 10-bit nowadays, and use Vegas, so I have to use Combustion for any processing that needs to maintain the higher bit depths between steps. AE Pro would also be OK (but not the basic AE version which is 8-bit only), as would Fusion, Shake, etc.

BMD offers “the world’s first 10 bit RGB 4:4:4 Dual Link (SMPTE 372M) editing solution for Premiere Pro, including full capture and playback to true RGB 10 bit files.” This seems hot, perhaps a PP user in this forum could confirm that the 10-bit RGB is maintained all the way through to the output of all effects and transitions?

I have not been able to find better tech specs for FCP than what Apple has on their web site, and those specs say nothing about the output bit depth of internal effects and transitions. Perhaps somebody else knows?

I also found the following at https://www.cinematography.net/Pages%20DW/HD_Post_Costs.htm:

Final Cut, in its current form, is not the place to be doing high end color manipulations because it is bit depth limited and the color algorithms are not particularly sophisticated. Perhaps in the future there will be a third party add in solution to this, but right now if you want clean color correction and the most extensive manipulative capabilities, you’ll be looking elsewhere (i.e., DaVinci, Pandora, Lustre, etc.).

The rest of the page linked to above shows what some feature film pros think is the best workflow for FCP.

I’m hoping we don’t turn this into “my NLE is bigger than yours.” All NLEs have strengths and weaknesses, and for the record, Vegas is totally unsuitable for any film work requiring matchback. I wouldn’t have any problem switching to FCP, it’s high class, widely supported and the FCPUG is a fantastic resource.

Today I like Vegas because I’m not currently doing film work, I like the totally different paradigm for editing, and I appreciate that it is rock stable.

Is there another NLE that didn’t “computerize a flatbed,” but started with a clean slate to try to figure out the best way to edit, without having to do it as it was done before with film strips?

[Bj Ahlen]

All manufacturers tend to present the tech specs they are the most proud of, and leave the rest to be talked about only when absolutely necessary, if at all.

From https://www.hdforindies.com:

Apple’s […] demo artist said {…] there is NO 10 bit RGB processing in FCP – if you render anything, even a cross dissolve, it gets bounced into 10 bit YUV, then rendered from YUV back to RGB. Yuck. RGB is handled at 8 bits/channel max. […] So maybe next year.

Vegas works in 4:4:4 high-bit internally for effects and color correction, and I suspect this is the case for all of the top NLEs, including FCP. Still, in the end it all gets reduced to 8-bit RGB.

It’s a big step performance-wise to go above 8 bits, but it’s gotta happen someday.

[Bj Ahlen]

I like to maintain 10-bit for as long as possible in the long chain to the final render that is usually 8-bit today, as Lance indicated.

Maintaining 10-bit means more latitude to change the look of the footage anytime. It also helps a lot in an effects chain, where truncation after each step (in 8-bit NLEs) can lead to banding or even major artifacts in some cases. The cure for now is offlining the footage to Combustion, Fusion or AE Pro which can all work in 16-bit and beyond.

Some NLEs work in YUV natively. This reduces conversion which is good, but the color space (2.75 million colors) is less than one fifth of RGB (16 million colors) which makes it less suitable for effects work.

[Bj Ahlen]

Many NLEs, including Final Cut Pro, support doing effects, color correction and transitions etc. in higher bit depths, but then the result is truncated to 8-bit. That goes for FCP too.

Even FCP5 is 8-bit output only per Apple’s techs at NAB. Gotta be careful with interpreting vendor “marketing BS,” this goes for all vendors! I was just surprised to find out only now that FCP HD never supported the ITU 709 color space that is specified for “real HD.” The ITU 601 color space that is the standard for SD doesn’t have the same punch at all.

I’ve been working with Vegas for 10-bit uncompressed (using BMD’s excellent codec) since last year. This stays 10-bit as long as you only do straight cuts. For anything else you have to go to Combustion or equivalent. PITA for sure, but nice to have the extra latitude of 10-bit.

Even a $100K XPRI system is still only 8-bit. There are a few other fairly pricey NLEs that claim to do real 10-bit, but I am beginning to hear that even those don’t have it implemented fully. Needs more research…

[Bj Ahlen]

“FCP will do high-bit depth processing in YUV only.”

Does that mean FCP can now do internal processing, say color correction, at a higher bit depth and then output without banding to a 10-bit YUV codec?

My understanding was that the output of any internal operation was always an 8-bit result.

I think we need to be very specific about what we are asking for, otherwise it will be totally ignored.

(In the meantime, let’s rejoice in Soundtrack Pro, they seem to have outdone themselves on this one.)

[Bj Ahlen]

I never used the Sony codec for this, only BMD’s 10-bit codec which is totally outstanding.

I thought Sony said you HAVE TO use the BMD codec with V6 right now anyway, and I suspect there’s your problem.

[Bj Ahlen]

Amen to that. The Alchemist Platinum is their most expensive version, but offers the highest quality.

This is not a box anyone will buy unless they have a good chunk of work for it, but there are plenty of companies worldwide that are happy to offer its high performance conversion as a service.

I don’t think they spared any expense in making this the best converter possible.

[Bj Ahlen]

MainConcept is neck-and-neck with Procoder for producing the very best MPEG-2 from an interlaced source.

For progressive video, Cinemacraft’s Encoder SP ($2,000) is better.