[Ben Holmes]

Dear Eric

Adobe’s slogan for Encore (which I see every time it reopens after a crash) is “come for the blu-ray, stay for the flash”. That may well be true if you have a PC, but it sure ain’t if you have a Mac.

I was asked by a client if I could produce a Blu-Ray as well as a DVD version of a very simple disk. Honestly, unless it was a single menu with a ‘play’ button, it’s hard to see how this one could have been simpler. I told him it was new to me, but I read a lot on Encore (mostly from Adobe) and I noted that the solution has been around for some time now. These are not ‘early days’ for Blu-Ray. I already produce a lot of DVDs, and was very comfortable with the interface in Encore.

Prior to starting work on this project, I spent two weeks learning the software and simulating disks. I was satisfied (since I am used to the simulator workflow on DVD-SP) that I could probably deliver. I continued to reassure my client, though warning him that it was still an unknown quantity to me.

After an initial build, and a successful DVD encode, several days ago, all was well. Then I moved to testing the Blu-Ray.

Hardly any element of it on playback was totally correct. The encoding (despite trying various settings) coped badly with the frame rates required (although I am happy to admit some of the mistakes were mine – ones I allowed extra time for anyway) so I have switched to Compressor. The buttons did not appear, and the routing was incorrect. All of this I have detailed above.

So I bought a product I had every reason to suspect would fit my needs, was not in it’s early days, that I had taken the time to learn and (I thought) test and it simply is faulty. And you’re wondering why I’m annoyed? If you bought Photoshop from Adobe, and all your exports were the wrong colour, what would you do?

And here’s the rub – I’m not the only one having this problem on a Mac – others have responded exactly the same.

There’s a limit to how careful I can expect to be with new software. I run a busy company, so I spent time on my holidays doing everything I could to ensure delivery. AND I bought software from the industry leader at a not inconsiderable price to make sure I gave myself the best chance of delivering. This is sofware marketed at small businesses like me – if I was a larger concern, I would have Scenerist or similar at far greater expense.

As far as law suits go, I said I would be seeking a full refund. If that’s not forthcoming, then yes I would consider being part of a class-action lawsuit, since there is NO advice on Adobe’s website not to purchase Encore if you have a Mac running Leopard, apart from a note from December last year promising an update in January. That’s not good enough.

If you can show me how my project is wrongly constructed such that it works on the simulator, works on the DVD encode and doesn’t work on the Blu-Ray then I would be delighted to hear from you. Otherwise, I’m not sure what your comment was in aid of.

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

Walter

Don’t worry – found this:

https://blogs.adobe.com/davtechtable/2008/04/apples_compressor_encore_blura.html

Apologies! Didn’t look hard enough at the compressor settings. I sometimes forget about google when I’m on the cow….

Have a great weekend – and thanks for all your help and support as ever…

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

Walter

I’ve managed to make the blu-ray image! Still got those navigation problems, but hey….

However, I’ve now turned my attention to the pictures on my DVD and Blu-Ray and well… the motion is awful. I let Encore do the DVD ones, and it’s made a hash of it – I don’t actually know if it can deal with the 24p video I have given it properly.

Can I ask you a couple of quick questions before I embark on a weekend long render? I really appreciate (as ever) your time on this:

My video is 24p and I’m making a 23.98p Blu-Ray and a 29.97i NTSC DVD.

1) I’ve used compressor now to retime the DVD files from 24>23.98 as everything I’ve read says this is an acceptable MPEG format for DVD playback, so even though my video files will all be 23.98, the Encore project is stuck on 29.97 (the only option). I plan to drop the encoded files straight into Encore and build in there. I believe this will be ok – is it?

2) I’m wondering if I should use compressor to re-encode the HD files as well – if so you mentioned in another thread:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/145/863018

“On the Mac side, we use Compressor to prepare our files and one of the settings under HD is “BluRay.”

I must be going daft (and to be honest I’m so tired now I re-made the whole Blu-Ray project as 29.97 rather than 23.98 without thinking – and saved the project to my system drive by accident) but I can’t find a blu-ray setting in compressor. Can you tell me what settings you use so I can avoid build errors?

I’m sorry to bother again – let me know if you have time. I would rather be spending some time with my kids this weekend, but it’s not to be.

Many thanks

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

[olof ekbergh] “And yes I have the Adobe CS3 master collection so I plan to learn Encore.”

Good luck with that using Blu-Ray on a Mac – it’s pretty busted.

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

As an update to my first post, here’s a little progress:

Starting from scratch, I identified a few buttons that worked in Blu-Ray as they did on the simulator. I discovered that if I changed the colour set at all, they ceased to funtion. So sqaure red buttons it is. I have now added the media back in with the menus so we’ll see if I can manage a sucessful build over the weekend without an error.

My navigation is fouled up in pretty much the same way everyone else’s is: My link to the chapter menu highlights button 2, not button 1 (so it defaults to chapter 2) and my link to my third menu (special features) links to button 3. They work fine in the simulator, and on an SD burn.

That sounds like a simple scripting error, doesn’t it? Except that of course if it WAS a simple error, Adobe would have fixed it, right? I accept that Blu-Ray is harder to program for – so maybe the greatest minds at Adobe cant fix this. Or maybe they haven’t bothered. Who knows. Right about now, I don’t really care. If this was beta software, I could wear it, but it SO isn’t. If your sofware can’t do basic things like this disk right, don’t offer it for sale.

I think I can cope with a half-baked low volume disk that actually plays things – so that’s what I’m hoping for tomorrow. Then I’m never using it again. Hopefully Apple will update DVD SP before I have to make a choice….

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

[walter biscardi] “Actually, it is. Through my posts on this forum, my blog and the FCP Forum, I have been by some incredible people who work in the commercial bluray industry for very VERY large studios. What I have learned is that BluRay specs are an incredibly complicated set of specs that were basically designed so nobody but Sony could ever create the proper software to burn a disc. In the words of one person who contacted me, “A kid can program DVD authoring software, BluRay software is incredibly hard.”
“

Do I have to conclude that the software you posted above “NetBlender’s DoStudio” is also very basic? I also have it from the client (a senior guy at a large games house) that they have PC software that was essentially free that they use to make more complicated disks that mine. Don’t know how true that is, but he’s a friend of mine, not trying to hassle me.

I think this is the simplest disk I have ever made – I didn’t want to trip up on my first outing…

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

Walter

I know you’re a cautious upgrader – what versions of OSX etc. are you running Encore on?

I propose we put some (small as possible!) broken Encore projects up on the Cow for people to test. That would end this once and for all, surely.

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

Jeff

I’m not concerned with the burn bug. I have no issue creating ISOs in Encore and burning them in Toast. Apple’s poor Blu-Ray support is not Adobe’s fault.

The point here is that irrespective of my own failing with the software, what I see in the simulator and what I see after a very lengthy build process are not the same.

That’s faulty software – plain and simple.

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

Walter

Thanks for the info – but I’m Mac only….

Two things: Making Blu-Ray disks ain’t rocket science. Other company’s products work.
Also, a search under Leopard on adobe support to see if it’s related to recent OS releases (which may explain why a product that has been out for so long DOESN’T WORK) only links to a Leopard FAQ stating an update for Encore would be released in DEC 2007 to ensure compatibility.

If they haven’t got it working by now, it should be withdrawn from sale for OSX. If not that, it should be made VERY clear on Adobe’s site it is broken.

If there are class-action suits to be entered, I’m in. I’ll be lucky if this hasn’t cost me a client.

You know – what really bums me out is that I did the right thing. Faced with a new technology I went for the expensive industry standard. Not a free version, or cheap standalone. I paid Adobe’s high prices for something they advertise for Blu-Ray ease of use.

Well – stuff you Adobe. Your software is broken, and it appears you don’t care enough about it to tell anyone.

I’m a little angry.

Ben

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[Ben Holmes]

The post above should state the following:

I run an 8-Core 2008 Mac Pro running Leopard 10.5.4 – 8 Gb Ram.

Apologies. I’m sure the Leopard part is important.

Ben

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