Ben Holmes
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Oh – something else in my RSS filters today:
https://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/amex-digital-does-what-steve-wouldnt-intros-portable-blu-ray-b/
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If Apple had a way to do Blu-Ray? I’m sorry, but I have not seen any reasoning why they can’t include a Blu-Ray drive in their machines, the same as everyone else does. The costs and licencing issues of professional replication are well known, but they are not the issue here. As I said before, Apple could put these drives in machines to order, and cover the per-machine licence costs in the extra charges. Whether or not they chose to develop a proper authoring solution is a completely separate issue, surely?
I don’t think it’s any stretch to say that Blu-Ray players (and playback) do not appeal to Apple because it would be in direct competition to the iTMS, and that’s why they have not taken the first steps towards proper Blu-Ray integration. In other words, because that first step is not in Apple’s financial interests, it had directly effected their pro userbase. I’m not blaming Apple – that’s the financial reality. It just means that the interests of myself and Apple have diverged, and the cosy little closed world I had in Apple-land doesn’t look viable now in the long term.
Here’s a Steve Jobs reply yesterday to a complaint about Firewire:
His response (and these responses are pretty well documented and checked) is that all new HD camcorders use USB. True. He fails to mention that (as someone else here pointed out) the iApps on Macbooks encode all those HD long-gop streams like AVCHD (I have an AVCHD camcorder) to AIC, which is now unplayable on Macbooks, as they no longer have ANY means of connecting media drives in a manner fast enough to play them. Apparently this irony is lost on Jobs. I think the article makes some interesting points, but adds near the end:
“Even so, many argue that Apple’s move appears built to upsell any serious user to the MacBook Pro, which starts at $800 more than the entry level new MacBook, despite the fact that Apple continues to sell the previous-generation white MacBook, with FireWire intact, for $300 less than the new aluminum MacBooks.”
Hmmm.
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Wow – this all went a little off-topic. Whilst we’re at it though, I just cannot see what issues Apple have to overcome with Blu-Ray that have not been overcome by EVERY OTHER computer manufacturer. You give a Blu-Ray option, and you charge a price that covers the licencing. End of story. That’s a completely seperate issue to making authoring software like, erm, Adobe and Roxio did.
If there was official Blu-Ray support on Macs, perhaps the 3rd party solutions wouldn’t suck as hard as they do. Also, I have 2 Blu-Ray drives, one internal and one external, and both are recognised by OSX. Both are available for burning plug-and-play. I even get a nice little BD-R logo on my Apple desktop when I stick a BD-R in. So who are Apple trying to kid? All their attitude achieves is sub-standard Mac software like Encore. Way to go Apple!
So – to conclude: Apple hobbled the Macbook to protect it’s Pro market and hobbles Pro machines with no Blu-Ray to protect it’s ITMS market. Oh well – I guess they can have a bit less of my money in future.
Ben
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Well, they DID remove it – it was on the old Macbook. Saying the product has no firewire on it because it wouldn’t fit, is frankly laughable… Sorry.
Ben
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Yes – I could forsee the ‘market leader’ argument – I’m sure that’s how Apple will spin this. As it’s impossible to say what Apple’s actual motives are, there is nothing to be proved here – and I agree with everything you have said on one level. I think the decision Apple made to drop FW on the iPods is the most compelling argument – but that’s due to the fact that PC manufacturers don’t like paying the FireWire royalties that go to – er – Apple. It gets to add the ports for free on their own laptops!
As the previous poster said, these are not PRO machines, but that distinction is now really only in Apple’s heads. The Macbook is now a perfectly capable laptop with decent graphics. I’m afraid you’re just not going to convince me they chose NOW (when the iMac now has FW800 on it – another consumer machine, but then there’s no iMac Pro is there?!) to remove a port that served many pros and consumers without considering the damage the new MacBooks would do to sales of the MBP. My guess is many pro users (especially those working in audio AND video) would have decided that the new Macbook would do – so Apple took a decision to push them towards the Pro machines.
Shame – as I said, I think it cost them a market. Certainly cost them a little more of my money!
On the plus side – I just noticed that refurb 17″ MBP’s are selling for big discounts on the UK Apple store – I can pick up one for less than the cost of that new Macbook actually… 😉
Ben
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Winston
USB2 is no good for video capture/playback, as it sends data in packets, not continuously. It’s also not supported by the vast majority of consumer camcorders, unlike firewire. Even setting aside someone like me, who has bought into the entire Mac spectrum (I currently own a Mac Mini, iMac, MBP, and several Mac Pros) that’s a lot of consumers and prosumers to diss.
Again – ask yourself ‘why drop it’. If it’s because the NVidia chipset does not support it, then how is FW800 implemented on the new MBP? It certainly doesn’t require the ‘other’ gfx chip to be enabled to use firewire AFAIK.
Nope, sorry – this was a cold hard business decision by Apple to create an affordable MacBook Pro (one as I said that I and others would have bought instantly as a second machine) but then remove a key feature to maintain sales of the pro machines – because honestly, from a video point of view, setting aside Motion or Color (for which I recommend a tower anyway) the new MacBook would probably have done everything you would have needed it to, if it had a proper interface. Without it, unless you’re a gamer, it’s just an over-priced laptop to many many people.
Ben
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If you master in PAL, the player would have to be Multiformat in the NTSC country, as well as the TV or display playing it. That’s quite a risk to take, and I wouldn’t recommend it.
If you master your disk at 23.98p however, it will be interlaced by the player to either 30 or 25 interlaced fps. This is how Hollywood films are mastered (23.98p is the video equivalent of 24p used in cinema with a small conform to alter the speed a fraction) – and means your project will play fine in either region. A progressive DVD player (most of them these days) will even give a better picture via Component or RGB scart. This noticeably improves the quality of your DVDs (which are pretty shoddy otherwise).
This is a great solution if you have not mastered or shot yet. If you’ve already shot video at 50i (25fps) then you should get a conversion made (or use something like Natress’s standards converter) to an NTSC frame rate, and re-encode the disk for NTSC regions.
Ben
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Interesting points Paul. I don’t buy into FW being EOL though – FW3200 proves it’s got life in it, and FW800 is a perfect interface for mobile video – capable of dealing with HD (compressed), daisy-chainable (take that, eSATA) and robust. Backward compatibility is a boon too.
I don’t really want to get into a discussion here about the merits of FW – in a way I think it’s tangential to the here-and-now. It’s still the most used interface amongst pro users. So, once again -WHY DROP IT? Easy – Apple wants $2000 from you, not $1300. I note this was not an issue when the Macbooks were incapable of running Apple’s pro video suite. I wonder what has changed…
Ben
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[walter biscardi] “There’s a long thread down below that already covers a lot of your talking points. “
I saw that Walter – I posted in it! I know the lack of FW came up in it, but that’s not my point here. My point is WHY they dropped it. I cannot see any other sane reason other than the one I outlined. Maybe I’m just paranoid…
Oh – no, Apple ARE out to get me.
😉
Ben
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[Chi-Ho Lee] “I’m sure you can get a mini display port to DVi adapter to connect to a tower”
Nope. Doesn’t exist. This screen is being marketed as a laptop companion – the old DVI screens are still available.
Also – I am yet to speak to anyone bothered about the glossy-only screens who has actually used one – I’d be happy for someone to prove me wrong. The screens are just too bright to be a problem, and the colours are plenty accurate. The new LED backlit ones should be even better.
And anyone moaning about not being able to use them outdoors – come on. When did you last edit outdoors. I’ve gone a whole week on work without even seeing a WINDOW.
Ben
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