Barry Green
Forum Replies Created
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[Peter Sassi] “What about the P versus the PA in the cadence if we “Do decide to go film out?” If i read you correctly, the PA will be okay to edit in a 720 24p timeline (FCP) and go to NTSC with out any artifacts or exaggerated “flicker”?”
Some misconceptions here, so let’s start back a ways. 24P vs 24PA *only* applies to 1080. 720 is a whole different kettle of fish. 🙂
As for the cadence: if you edit 1080/24pA footage on FCP in a 1080/24p sequence, there is no cadence. The pulldown disappears and you edit the pure raw original 24 frames per second. It’s exactly what you’d want. When outputting to NTSC, you’d have to downconvert and then it would put pulldown back in (unless you’re going to DVD, in which case no pulldown is necessary; DVD players were designed from the beginning to work with 24fps footage).
With 1080/24p (instead of 1080/24pA) things are not so rosy — you’ll have 3:2 pulldown and yes you’ll have cadence issues and overall I just say “don’t do it”. 1080/24P mode is for when you’re not editing the footage, or when you’re handing the footage off to someone else and don’t know how they’re editing it, or if they’re editing on an Avid. For any other rational purpose, ditch the 1080/24P mode and use 1080/24pA instead.
For 720, you have a choice of 720/24P or 720/24pN. When shooting to the P2 cards, there are overwhelming benefits (both in shooting and in editing) to using 720/24pN mode. If you intend to edit on a 24p timeline, you’ll make your life easier and your editor’s life easier by sticking with 24pN whenever possible.
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[jiri vrozina] “Interesting….
how much is that option on HPX-2000?”US MSRP of $3,000.
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Yes you could definitely intercut them. You have to go through with an a/b monitor and match them up, and the 500 is going to be sharper and have more latitude, but the colorimetry is very close and they match very well when configured for that purpose.
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No, and it’s not an option. The HDX900 is a tape-based camera. AVC-Intra is not a tape-based format.
HPX2000 has the option of adding the AVC-Intra card, and the HPX3000 has AVC-Intra built-in.
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[newbee33] “barry, thanks for the info, but why the heck are those theatrical films you mentioned they chose 720p, other than over and undercranking, dont they got the budget for more cards?”
With at least one of them, the choice of 720 was made because the post house insisted. They cut on FCP, and at the time they started the production FCP didn’t support pulldown removal from 1080.
I doubt they’d recommend 720 again over 1080 for any reason other than card space savings.
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1080/24pA looks better than 720/24pN. More resolution, more detail, less compression.
It’ll look basically identical when you put it to DVD, but on a larger screen the 1080 will hold an edge over the 720. Not night and day, but about 20% better.
Problems? Depends on your editing system; if you’re using Avid, you can’t edit 1080/24PA footage *as* 24p; Avid makes you edit it as 60i. So if using Avid, I’d say forget the 1080 mode and just go 720 and make your life easier.
But if using Vegas or Premiere with Raylight, or EDIUS, or FCP, all of them have the ability to strip out 1080/24pA pulldown and give you a pure raw 24p data file. In those cases, 1080/24pA is just plain better than 720/24pN.
The other situation you’ll run into is data size and card recording time. 720/24pN will give you 2.5x as much footage, per gigabyte, as 1080/24pA will. So you’ll have to decide if the clarity and cleaner compression of 1080/24pA is worth having it take up 2.5x as much storage space.
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[Raymond Motion Pictures] “You’re right. But it has everything to do with flickering. The camera cannot match the projector’s cadence – it would double expose each frame. The alternative would have been for the camera to shoot 48fps to reduce flicker in a matching projector. Instead, they chose 24fps to save film.”
Sorry, I still don’t follow what you’re getting at.
There is no flicker whatsoever in a movie camera. Watch any movie transferred to video and you’ll see what I mean.
Flicker is solely the product of using a film projector. The projector technology was modified to project each frame twice or three times, in an attempt to minimize the flicker introduced by hiding the frame 50% of the time. But the nature of 24fps does not equal flicker, and projectors do not run the film faster than 24fps. It’s all 24 frames per second. Film projectors flicker because of their mechanical shutter, not because of the frame rate.
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You can run it alongside, but there’s really no reason to. P2CMS includes P2 Viewer as a built-in component.
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[pom_boarder] “And in future I will describe HDV as a… What? Sub35Mbps codec?”
Well, it is a sub-35mbps codec. Nothing about HDV has anything to do with 35mbps, and never has.
Again, it comes in two flavors: HDV1, 720p-only, used only by JVC, at 19 megabits. Or HDV2, 1080-only, used by Canon and Sony, at 25 megabits. HDV does not go to 35 megabits, never has and never will.
XDCAM-HD and XDCAM-EX go to 35 megabits, but HDV doesn’t. All the flavors of HDV, XDCAM-HD and XDCAM-EX are based around the same basic thing: long-GOP MPEG-2 @ 4:2:0, so there’s room for confusion there. But if you wanted 35mbps you’d have to step up to an XDCAM-EX or XDCAM-HD product, because HDV doesn’t get anywhere near that.
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Problem is, Sony is only making sure that the footage from Sony camcorders work with Vegas. They specifically say that Vegas has “support for Sony AVC-HD camcorders.” If you use a Canon or a Panasonic AVC-HD cam, well, they’re not in too big of a hurry to support you. I’ve heard from people who’ve tried Canon footage and Panasonic footage in Vegas 8 and it didn’t work with either.
As time goes by, it almost looks like Sony is shifting Vegas over to being a Sony-specific app — meaning, if you need support for other manufacturer’s equipment, I’d have to hesitate before recommending Vegas. They don’t support DVCPRO-HD, they rely on third-party support for that. They only support the Sony variant of MXF, ignoring the Panasonic/Thomson/Grass Valley version. They only support the Sony version of AVC-HD, ignoring footage from Canon and Panasonic products. But hey, if you need to render out a file directly to a Sony Playstation Portable, Vegas has got you covered.
If all you use is Sony products, Vegas would be the best editor for you. But if you want to use other brands, you may have to think about branching out to looking at other editors.