720pN – help please!

[Randall Raymond]

I am assuming that because you get more shoot time on the cards with 720pN it is more compressed or lower in quality?

Same quality – just less frames actually recorded. i.e. no pull down.

[Shane Ross]

OK…when a Varicam shoots 720p onto tape, it does so at 60fps…running at 59.94. If you switch the camera to 24P, it will record 24fps onto that tape AT 59.94…adding pulldown. When you capture than into FCP, it captures the footage AT 23.98…removing the redundant frames. So the TC of this capture skips a whole bunch of numbers. It goes all the way up to 59, but because it is only 24 frames, frame numbers are missing.

the HVX-200 and every other P2 camera out there records 24PN…meaning 24 REAL frames of video, not 23.98 in a 59.94 data stream. So because it shoots 24fps opposed to 60fps, yeah, there is a HUGE savings in terms of storage and how much record time you have on a P2 card.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
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[Phil Summers]

Thanks Shane and thanks Raymond.

So is there any disadvantage to shooting pN? Why would anyone shoot 720p when 720pN is so much more effective and economic with card space?
Also if you guys have any comments about transfer times from camera to laptop via firewire/USB I’d again be very grateful.

Thanks

Phil

[Randall Raymond]

[Phil Summers] “So is there any disadvantage to shooting pN? Why would anyone shoot 720p when 720pN is so much more effective and economic with card space?”

To accommodate their NLE.

[Noah Kadner]

The only reason to not shoot 24pN is if your NLE doesn’t support it natively- check to make sure first. FCP does. Not sure on the others but I’m sure someone else can chime in.

Noah

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[Douglas Villalba]

There are other reasons.

If you are using a FW out to a laptop or Firestore FS-100
If you want to shoot 720p 24 or 30 at different frame rate and still record sound.

For example I like to record 720p 24 at 18 fps to get that old 8mm fill effect. If I use PN I would get fast motion without sound.

[Noah Kadner]

Or just because you hate the letter N. As my name starts with it, I have to discard that particular reason.

Noah

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[Emre Tufekci s.o.a.]

Just an addition to what douglas commented on;

FS100 has the new patch 4.0 out which enables you to record variable rates and PN over firewire. My recording time on FS-100 is approx 238min 720 24PN.

Cheers,

Emre
http://www.productionpit.com
Boxx Tech PC, dual-dual AMD 2.0,4BG ram,Avidexpress HD w/Mojo,UVW-1800,DSR-25, Adobe production studio.

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[Randall Raymond]

[Noah Kadner] “The only reason to not shoot 24pN is if your NLE doesn’t support it natively- check to make sure first. FCP does.”

The best way to explain it is this: Film Cameras shoot 24fps to save film. But watching 24fps would drive you crazy – there’s too much flicker. So, when it goes to film print for projection it’s 48fps. AABBCCDD and so on – repeating each frame to eliminate flicker.

You NLE will being doing the same thing in adding frames to eliminate flicker and meet NTSC specs.

So for video, shooting 24pn has the same motivation – but instead of saving film – we’re saving card memory – but ending up with the same great picture by automatically adding frames back in with the computer.

[Barry Green]

[Raymond Motion Pictures] “So, when it goes to film print for projection it’s 48fps”

But it’s not 48 fps. It’s 24 frames per second. You only see 24 frames. Yes each one gets flashed twice (or three times), but 24 frames move through the projector each second.

Transfer that 24fps to DVD and watch it on a progressive-scan DVD player connected to a progressive-scan TV and you’ll see exactly 24 frames per second, no repeating, no flashing, no pulldown, no anything.

The multiple-flashing repeat frames thing is a concession to the mechanical shutter of a film projector, and not to the actual motion of 24fps material.