Andy Patterson
Forum Replies Created
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[Tim Wilson] “So yeah, fair enough, I said name me a decent program trying to cover all the bases, and you did. But the process you describe that YOU went through is what I think the RIGHT one is, which is focus on one that’s at the core of the curriculum, and teach yourself the other stuff on the side. I mean, it’s not like the ONLY movies I watched were the ones I was assigned in film appreciation class, right? I didn’t just read assigned books. I followed my curiosity.”
I think Andrew is saying the students that put a lot into the program will get a lot out. Not everyone would have to take all three classes for Avid, Premiere and FCPX. If you have an internship and find out they use Avid BAM! You are at college and your college offers Avid training. Having said that some college do have inept professors.
[Tim Wilson] “But here’s the thing. I didn’t learn ANY NLEs, because they wouldn’t exist for another decade after my schooling. ???? The idea of owning a camera was preposterous…but the standpoint of the program was, you’ll use U-matic because that’s what here. You’ll probably use something else later, like maybe that Betacam stuff we’re seeing…but who knows. Could be anything. You’ll leave here ready for anything, but not because you’ve used everything. Because you’ve learned how to learn one thing WELL. After that, learning anything else is trivial.”
U-matic 3/4″ and Beta are still both linear media so only knowing one is OK. If you can edit 3/4′ you can edit Beta as well. Kind of like SD and Memory Stick. I went to college prior to the NLE days and I loved learning the hardware, switcher CCU, CG.
I think there are people who will figure things out on their own and then there are those that must be taught. I think that is a key point to make.
I have seen some interesting comments from everyone.
Here is a flashback for some of you.
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[Walter Soyka] “There are a lot of statements you could fill in that blank, but there are only so many teaching hours in a course, or a curriculum, or a degree. You fill it in with “all three major NLEs,” and that makes a lot of sense. Others might fill it in with “the craft of editing” or “visual storytelling” and those make sense, too. Whatever you fill in there carries an opportunity cost; reaching any one of those goals requires lots of dedicated time at the exclusion of something else.”
I agree. I was just asking your opinion. Every college will have a different budget and different philosophy. I know some colleges do not have full studios with CCU, Character generator, Cameras, Switcher, Clearcom and Camplex system. It can be expensive to teach Radio, TV and film at the college level. Having said that I know some high schools that have full fledged TV studios.
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[Eric Santiago] “Now as far as negatives go, last night I had to show the Premiere Title Tool…nuff sed :P”
I like the titling tool in Premiere. You can create track mattes with it and really cool text and lower thirds. As far as I know FCPX does not have any drawing tools with their titling system. Can you elaborate on your comment a little more?
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[Tony West] “I was just curious if you were telling him how to do his job from personal experience of doing what you told him to do yourself, or from an assumption that you could do it better if you ever had the chance to do it in real life, instead of in your head.”
I would not mind if someone critiqued me and stated they knew of another software/hardware combo (in 2003) that was less expensive than what Pinnacle had at the time and would allow for capturing old VHS and HI-8 tapes. I had people 10-60 years of age in the video class an computer repair class. Some had their own hardware and software and I was able to get it all to work pretty easy. I stayed after class on my own dime many times. I love teaching the classes.
[Scott Witthaus] “[Claude Lyneis] ” The staff at our local film school all went PP after FC7 was abandoned and there is almost revulsion at the idea of X. ”
Faculty needs to do whats best for the visual storytelling, not their own hide in their own bias. I think if the faculty at your school gave each software equal play there might be a difference,”
His first comment on the subject implies that introducing students to different software titles might a be a benefit to the students. I tend to agree all though it may not be possible. Scott and I both agree if only Premiere Pro it being taught. On the other hand Scott thinks if FCPX is there NLE of choice then there is not a need to offer classes for other software titles. In other words Scott is kind of saying the “other school” should offer more than one NLE class but his “school” shouldn’t. Could that be seen as hypocritical to critic another school for doing the same thing? That is kind of my point.
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[Scott Witthaus] “Oh, I did find out that Berklee Online is offering an online class on FCPX, but I can’t find an online Avid or Premiere class! https://online.berklee.edu/brands/final-cut-pro“
Once again I find your response a little odd. Every college is going to do what is best for them. If a college stated we teach only Avid because Avid gave our college 20 MC licenses for free I could not blame them. FCPX does have a nice price. If you had stated we opted for FCPX because of the price I could relate.
[Scott Witthaus] ”
In my mind, X is a superior product for editorial and that is what I teach them.If some had stated “In my mind, Avid is a superior product for editorial and that is what I teach them”. You would probably comment by stating you think FCPX is a superior editor. Am I correct? You would probably state that FCPX has some good features and is worth knowing. I would agree that FCPX is worth knowing. See my point? Has anyone ever seen me state FCPX or Avid should not be taught? Has anyone ever seen me post that Premiere Pro is the best NLE? I am getting a sense that you feel only FCPX is worth knowing. If not you would probably want to teach an Avid class as well or have someone else teach it. Correct? If you had sated “our college only has the budget for iMacs and FCPX but I wish we could offer Avid and Premiere on the PC that would shine a different light on things. Below is your response to a school that teaches only Premiere Pro.
[Scott Witthaus] “[Claude Lyneis] ” The staff at our local film school all went PP after FC7 was abandoned and there is almost revulsion at the idea of X. ”
Faculty needs to do whats best for the visual storytelling, not their own hide in their own bias. I think if the faculty at your school gave each software equal play there might be a difference”
For the record I am saying the same thing to you as you did to Cluade. You think learning other software titles would be good for a school if Premiere Pro is the NLE of choice. Can you see how that is some what hypocritical?
[Scott Witthaus] “What a crappy school for doing that! ???? Kidding.”
Walter Soyka stated where he works they use Mac and PC as well as FCPX and Premiere Pro. Some places do want the editor to know both Mac and PC. Shouldn’t college be the place to learn both Mac and PC? When you only teach FCPX and have an all Mac platform it does limit the student learning potential. I am not saying if the school has a very tight budget and Apple gave them a better deal than HP that they shouldn’t opt for Apple. What I also noticed is that you are happy that your college is all Mac based. That is OK. Many people would prefer to know both. I now how to use a PC. If our community college only taught on PCs I would feel a little ripped off since I know how to use a PC. Every school is going to do it their way. Some will opt for both Mac and PC platforms while others will not. Some will teach Avid and Premiere Pro and others will not. I am not trying to imply your school is no good. In fact it is probably a great school. You are probably a great instructor but every instructor and every college will be different.
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[Tony West] “[andy patterson] “You should be able to teach all three unless you are only a part time instructor.”
Do YOU teach all 3?”
Interesting you would ask. I do not teach all three. I did teach Pinnacle Studio (not Pinnacle Liquid Edition) as part of a continuing education program at the community center. The course was for average people wanting to know how to edit home movies (DVDs). Pinnacle could work as software only or with their hardware for less than $100.00 to capture VHS and HI-8 tapes. Having said that if I was offered to teach full time at a college I would welcome the chance to teach all three. Why not? For the record I taught a basic computer repair class while I was teaching the video editing class.
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[Oliver Peters] “Actually this isn’t true. Avid, at least Media Composer, hasn’t had much in the way of GPU acceleration and not background rendering”
Fast had background rendering with the Silver, Red and Purple systems. Pinnacle bought out Fast Multi Media and called it Liquid Edition. Liquid Edition added GPU acceleration. Avid later bought out Pinnacle and killed Liquid Edition.
[Oliver Peters] “And patents aren’t written quite that simplistically. Two different companies could both have patented background rendering or GPU acceleration using different paths or processes.”
I would tend to agree. Edius had Ripple Edit before Apple’s magnetic timeline. Having said that Edius is not trackless. Adobe had great Metadata prior to FCPX. Keyword and Keyword collections were implemented in Adobe’s bridge long before the release of FCPX. So I wonder what patents anyone mimicking FCPX would have to pay to Apple. Walter Soyka had brought up the patent issues not me.
[Oliver Peters] “They have had background transcoding, but it’s not very useful.”
There was an article (maybe 2007) saying Avid couldn’t not implemented the features of Liquid into MC. I guess every NLE is different. Pinnacle was able to get Liquid to work with the Targa 3000 video capture card. I think it was called Liquid Chrome. Liquid Edition used Open GL. I know that.
That is why I wrote Fast/Pinnacle/Avid. I was not implying Avid’s Media Composer had background rendering or GPU acceleration first. Fast was just bought and sold a lot before being killed by Avid. I was stating who might have the patents if anyone. We know it is not Apple.
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[Chris Wright] “does it work with the old cs6? you can install many different versions of premiere at the same time.”
It worked with CS 5.5. Having said that keep it in CPU mode instead of GPU mode.
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[Walter Soyka] “Andy, I’m not sure I understand the reasoning behind your hypothetical question, or what you’re getting at by asking it.
Is the question about using Apple products at the exclusion of others? My shop uses a mix of software, mainly Adobe, on both Macs and PCs. We use Premiere over FCPX nearly all of the time.”
I think you read my comments wrong or I worded them wrong. Either way it is no big deal but perhaps this time I can get my point across better. It is great that where you work it is cross platform shop and uses a mix of NLE. I do see places where they want the editors to know both Mac and PC. Shouldn’t college be a place to learn both platforms? Scott says absolutely not to cross platform. No PCs please. I asked if you had to teach a college course what would you do if there was something 99% like FCPX but it was free and cross platform? Wouldn’t that be a better option for the students then FCPX? I was not asking about where you work. Having said that stating that where you work it is cross platform and uses Premiere and FCPX both helps prove both my points although not to you obviously.
[Walter Soyka] “Is the question about the price of software? I think that development costs money, so software should cost money. I hope to be here for a while, and I want the development industry that my business relies on to be healthy so that it can support me. I wonder if Apple and BMD have depressed the value of the tools we use, and what that means for media tool makers in the long term. There needs to be enough margin there to foster real competition.”
I was not asking you if you think free software will cause BMD to go bankrupt. I am asking if a Program like FCPX was released by BMD and it was cross platform and free would that not be a better option for the students than FCPX? I am not asking if you think BMD would financial survive as a company giving out free software. My questions are about the best solution for teaching students the editing process not what is best for BMD or Apple.
[Walter Soyka] “Would I “buy FCPX for $300.00 knowing BMD offered the exact same thing for free?” In my experience, there are no two major software products in our market that are the exact same thing. I mind my expenses, but I’m also willing to pay for the products I want.”
My question is not about you and the software you use. It is a hypothetical question for teaching students how to edit.
[Walter Soyka] “That said, I’d actually be really interested to see a an FCPX work-alike on the market. It would mean that someone innovated around a bunch of Apple patents.”
FAST/Pinnacle/Avid had background rendering and GPU acceleration long before FCPX. Did the patent run out for Fast/Pinnacle/Avid? Perhaps it did.
[Walter Soyka] “Sorry if I misunderstood you before, but I can’t see how suggesting that someone take classroom time to teach three NLEs instead of one does not go to the question of what to teach and how to teach it.”
I was asking about what you would do if you had to teach editing classes. You stated you were taught both. Having said that having the option to take all three should be there. Not all students would take all three. If those three classes were added to the course catalogue it should make more money for the college.
What if someone had stated they taught editing classes (visual story telling) at college and only used Premiere Pro on PCs because Premiere on the PC is the best option for teaching the students editing. I think some people (FCPX & Avid editors) might have a few things to say about that. Wouldn’t you agree? I have a PC and Premiere Pro. I would like to think if I went to college today I would have the chance to learn as much as I could. As you stated earlier your shop is Mac and PC and uses a combination of NLE. I think colleges should offer as much but perhaps that’s just me.
[Walter Soyka] ” My shop uses a mix of software, mainly Adobe, on both Macs and PCs. We use Premiere over FCPX nearly all of the time.”
I am not saying Premiere is better than FCPX. I would think knowing them both and teaching them both might be a good idea.
I hope I explained things better this time or maybe worded them better. I think we may agree on many things.
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[Scott Witthaus] “Andy, am sure everyone is getting tired of our back and forth (I know I am), so let me just finish by saying yet again that while I appreciate your point of view and your passion on the subject, I am very comfortable what I teach and how I teach it.”
Who would you blame for that? You could have answered my question the first time I asked it. Instead you compared a TV Station to a college. I found your reply kind of odd. None the less I responded to it.
[Scott Witthaus] ” And I don’t “hate” Premiere, rather I think it’s not the best tool (at this time) for my students”
For the record I say negative things about Adobe all the time. In fact I tell people that own a Mac FCPX might be your best bet. I have no problem saying it. I know the price of FCPX is nice but some Mac users still prefer Avid and Premiere Pro over FCPX. I should also state that if only Premiere Pro was taught I would find that odd as well. Why not offer classes for Avid and Premiere Pro where you work and ask the students for their input? Perhaps their feedback could be useful. Perhaps they would say it was good to learn FCPX, Premiere and Avid. A student might say they like the magnetic timeline of FCXP but they may also tell you they like the customization of Premiere Pro’s GUI better than FCPX’s GUI.