[Andrew Kimery]

Have you guys tried using the Render and Replace function in PPro?

Also I’ve heard some of the older BM drivers work better than the new ones, but unfortunately I can’t remember exactly which versions of the old ones works the best.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “Nope. And neither has 95% of the working editors on the planet. I thought everyone was quite aware of my crusade not to let the conversation here in “or not” focus exclusively on the needs of the top sliver of the industry. “

Odd how the ‘the conversation is too narrowly focused to be relevant’ card doesn’t seem to get played when we are talking about how can FCP X serve the needs of the top sliver of the industry.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “Oh that’s just silly, Andrew. “

What’s silly about something that’s inexpensive, effective and easy to use? Because it doesn’t require electricity or a shiny new gadget?

Like I said in my previous post, I’ve tried a number of different technologies for reasons like you’ve mentioned but they’ve all failed to displace cards on a wall as a viable option for reasons I, and others, have mentioned. Oh no, choices. The horror.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “And now I haven’t TOUCHED it during editing in the 4 years I’ve been using X.”

How often do you work as part of a large post team though? If metadata has to be generated, shared, read and modified by a dozen (or dozens) of people (whom may or may not all be in the same physical location) then that changes the playing field. When I’m working as a solo flyer I can mostly keep things local and it’s rarely a problem. If I’m working with a group where multiple people are creating, sharing, and viewing info (maybe locally, maybe remotely) then I have to think about a collaborative workflow. Different solution to a different problem.

Murch kinda touched on this in the interview where it sound liked he was willing to use PPro on “Tomorrowland” but given the level of collaboration that “Tomorrowland” would require he didn’t think he could find enough collaborators that had both the workflow experience and the PPro experience required to do the job.

[David Lawrence] “One of my favorite past clients, IDEO is legendary for their use of post-it notes and 4’x8′ foam core panels to quickly document and iterate ideas. No matter how big your monitor is, it can’t compete with 4’x8′ foam core. Metadata is hard to share if it’s kept in a proprietary database and hidden on a tiny screen. Murch’s system works well for him for the same reason IDEO’s works well for their teams.
“

This, this, this 1000x this!

If there is a collaborative team in the same office I can’t think of anything more effective than a wall of cards if you are trying to get a birds-eye view of a big project. Anyone can access it, anyone can modify it and all the cards can be viewed at once (no scrolling required). I hate the process of making cards because my handwriting is horrible but it’s such an effective, easy way to consolidate an entire story.

And to be honest there’s just something nice about NOT having to stare at another screen for once.

[Bill Davis] “When we got back we went back to using the physical thing, cuz why not? “

Cuz it’s more comfortable than two grown me sitting shoulder to shoulder starring at a 13″ laptop screen for an extended period of time? 😉

I’ve tried different outlining apps, various organization methods in my NLE, even a free, web-based app from Amazon that creates a virtual cork board with cards, but in a group setting I haven’t found anything as quick, inexpensive, easy to use and ergonomic as a board with cards. Maybe when we finally get those paper thin, roll-up touch screen monitors that can be hung like a poster the board & card days will be over.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Tony West] “I don’t think if Joel told them to put tracks back they would, but I don’t think they would completely ignore him either. It’s semantics right?”

If his one request was tracks and they didn’t do it wouldn’t that be completely ignoring him? 😉

Predominantly following their own path has become very lucrative for Apple so I see no reason for them to change up their MO. Ever since I got into Macs about 15yrs ago it was obvious that they approached things differently than other companies (such as dropping all legacy ports in favor of USB and ditching the floppy drive before there was really a replacement for it), but I never really understand how deeply ingrained it was in Jobs (and therefore in Apple) until I read the Isaacson biography. Every Apple product was like a work of art, a creative expression for Jobs like a song to a song writer. Sure there are confidants and influencers during the dev process, and tweaks/refinements once the product hits the market, but the vision remained Jobs’ vision. Sometimes it worked (iPhone) and sometimes not so much (hockey puck mouse) but Apple has always been more about bringing people to them than going to the people.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Mark Suszko] ” The running joke about Avid for years was that it was a mediocre NLE, grafted onto the best filmmaking footage database system. The joke about Premiere was that it was the dongle for getting your copy of AfterEffects. The joke about FCPX is/was that it’s for young “bros” editing casual skateboard videos.”

Don’t forgot the running joke about FCP Legend which was that it’s what you settled for if you couldn’t afford a real NLE like Avid.

[Tim Wilson] “Here’s the thing. The sources of metadata aren’t mysterious. Some is generated by cameras, but most of it is collected by production assistants. You’d be astonished how much of it is hand written. An assistant editor then type type types all that information into fields.”

Just to riff on this, the system with the metadata also has to be available (readable and/or modifiable) to a network of people that may or may not be in the same physical location as you. Having a lot of metadata inside the NLE (regardless of which NLE it is) is great for the editor, but what about the assistant editors? The producers? The director? The VFX team in another city? This is where the need for real time collaborative tools start coming into play and somethings are just easier to do in an actual database vs an NLE.

[Andrew Kimery]

You can create a single camera multicam clip (which is basically just a nested sequence).

[Andrew Kimery]

[Tony West] “This of course is just the style I would use, he may have been going for the exact look he got. Just different opinions like a lot of this stuff.”

I can’t imagine poor mic placement is a stylistic choice anyone pines for. 😉 I was listening to the interview while I was working so I didn’t even notice the bare mic cable flapping around or the odd body position Murch was in. I used to shoot a lot in my younger days and I probably would’ve made the same adjustments you mentioned Tony. Maybe it’s poetic license, maybe it’s an unintentional visual grammar error.

[Tony West] “I really prefer to hear from people that have put the program through it’s paces.”

I agree but unfortunately Murch was at the mercy of the questions being asked. I feel like the interviewer was hoping for a sensationalistic answer that never materialized.

[Tony West] “When he said that Adobe listened to him and “Joel Coen” ah…………yeah………of course they listened to Joel Coen. Does he really think that Apple would not take a call from Joel Coen if he said he wanted to cut his next film with X? They listen to those guy from Focus, why wouldn’t they listen to Coen?
That made me smile.”

But would they do anything once the call ended? 😉 I’ve talked with people that run decent size facilities in LA and they used to have a direct line to a rep from the Pro Apps team but that ended after X came out. Now they have direct lines to the PPro team. One place, and granted it’s a big name, was even able to get a custom bug fix from Adobe to solve a show stopping issue with a third party product.

Saying “Apple doesn’t listen at all” is hyperbole but Apple doesn’t listen nearly as much as other companies do and they never have. It’s just not how they work. Murch’s comments about user feedback and ‘baby sitting pros’ are pretty much the same as what Ron Brinkmann said his experience was when Apple bought Nothing Real (maker of Shake). When Shake was made by Nothing Real there was a lot of interaction with the users and that was key in driving the software development. When Shake was made by Apple there was little interaction with users and Apple’s own idea of what Shake should be was key in driving software development.

Apple makes products following its own, internal vision and, basically, users can either take it or leave it. Even with FCP Legend, Apple was making the NLE that it wanted to make and it just happened to jive with many pros. When Apple decided that it wanted to rethink the NLE many people felt that Apple abandoned them, but Apple was never making FCP for them in the first place. It’s sorta like when Dylan went electric and many fans were upset and thought he was betraying his acoustic/folk roots. Dylan wasn’t making music for anyone but Dylan though and it was up to the audience to decide if they liked it or not.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Bill Davis] “I’m still convinced the actual damage being done to ALL of us is actually the changing landscape of MONEY flow that Adobe has elected (their legal option) to be an early leader in. “

I’m just quoting you for context Bill, but I’m not meaning to single you out because many people have said the similar things.

While picking on Adobe’s decision to go subscription-only is en vogue I rarely see a broader discussion about possibly why Adobe went the route it did or even an acknowledgment of the changing face of software monetization in general (increasing use of subscriptions, ad supported and/or freemium business models). Apple and Blackmagic get a lot of love these days in part because they give away/practically give away fully functioning software that’s tied to their hardware. Everyone loves ‘free’, right? But what’s the long term effect of treating professional software like an add-on?

Could devaluation of software make it harder for software companies to charge a profitable price for their wares? Might they then have to explore other business models to make ends meet? Could hardware companies offering software at everyday low prices actually be detrimental in the long term even though they are so attractive in the short term?

Let’s say the whole subscription-only thing fails, Adobe’s stock crashes and AJA ends up buying them and tries to mirror Blackmagic. So now perpetual licenses of Adobe software are basically free yet the catch is the software isn’t fully functional unless you have an piece of AJA hardware. Oh joy. So now I’m compelled to buy AJA hardware to get Premiere to work and compelled to buy BM hardware to get Resolve to work. What could possibly go wrong? Mmmm… I’m already getting flashbacks to the mid 2000’s where it was pretty much one NLE per computer due to headaches caused by hardware/driver conflicts.

Are there potential pitfalls with Adobe’s business model? Sure. There are also potential pitfalls with Apple’s and Blackmagic’s business model too.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Jeff Markgraf] “Nevertheless, I’m certain if Walter Murch decided to learn FCPX, he’d do the same kind of complex mixes. Because that’s what he does. “

Maybe or maybe he’d find X not to his liking and he’d decide not to use it because something else suits his personal needs/wants better. That’s basically what happened with Avid. It’s not that he can’t edit in Avid it’s just he finds it easier to edit how he likes in FCP Legend and now PPro (and possibly X down the road). Reasons like these aren’t indicative of anything other than personal workflow preferences.