Alex Gerulaitis
Forum Replies Created
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[Craig Wolf] “Sorry, I was thinking both you and Stephen worked for Enhance Tech/ProAVio. “
DV411 is an independent VAR and systems integrator. ProAvio/Enhance is one of our storage vendors, and is of Creative Cow sponsors with strong (as you noticed) presence here which may give an indication of the strength of their support.
[Craig Wolf] “Hmm, at that price point, the client may just go with the Promise solution, as they are very comfortable with FC.”
$600 StudioRack, $400 RAID controller, plus drives (about $1600 for eight Hitachi HDS 2TB drives) – there just isn’t anything much cheaper than that.
Going up from that, it’s a $2500 16-bay SAS expander, plus a $1K RAID controller, plus drives – and that may indeed be closer to an FC solution especially that you already have an FC card in your XServe.
The prices I gave you were all MSRPs; depending on the model, you can expect actual prices to be 10-15% lower.
[Craig Wolf] “I wish I could test this out before I make the purchase. Client needs it purchased today.”
In it has to be today – then FC. Testing a DAS like this may take a day or two – installing and configuring the controller, plus array initialization may take some time. FC is more of a plug-n-play thing.
Here is alternative from ET:
UltraStor RS System: 3U RM 16 Bay 16TB (16x1TB SATA) 2-port 4G Fibre Channel 3YR w/ 1YR ARP – $6400. Is it cost-effective vs. Promise VTrak E-Class?
Which Promise model are you considering? E.g. PROMISE VTrak Ex30f 8Gbps FC, is $9.5K just for the box (before adding drives).
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
How’s CPU and memory usage during rendering?
Tried rendering a smaller portion of the project?
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
[Peter Groom] “The thing that has stopped me so far doing exactly this is the cost vs capacity. I do want fast booting etc etc but will have to be patient enough until the capacities rise enough and the costs fall enough in time to make it viable.”
It’s a good point, and for the OP (Original Poster) that ratio isn’t all that discouraging: a serious 12- or 16-core system from HP, Dell, Boxx, or a custom integrator can be anywhere from $7K to $15K. Tucking on an extra grand for a 512GB SSD that will shave a few minutes of precious time every day – can be so worth it.
That said, you can still get a significant performance boost for under $100: by using a small SSD (40-60GB) as a caching mechanism on systems supporting Intel SRT.
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
[Scott Cole] “We are pondering purchasing new HP z800s (or 820s if they are out) for our Control Room Avids. I’m most interested in faster system reboots and program loads. While I don’t typically have many system or program crashes, they do happen on occasion and when waiting for reboots and program restarts, I’m often surrounded by a gaggle of impatient production people and an ever tightening air deadline. Any way to speed up these occasional hiccups would be appreciated. So are there any downsides to using SSDs for the OS/Program drive in a Windows Avid environment?”
In addition to Michael Hancock’s experience:
– Windows generally boots faster, especially when Z800/Z820 are properly configured to eliminate NIC and SAS ROM downloads (at boot time)
– Haven’t tried loading MC6 or Symphony 6 with an SSD on a Z820 yet but anticipate loading times cut in half (at least) with Intel 520 or similar high performance SSDs.
– Z820 series are out and shipping since May 2012
– HP to this day formally only supports 3Gbs (older, slower) Intel X25-M SSDs on their Z-series; there are https://www3.hp.com/t5/Workstations-z-series-xw-series/Z820-and-SSD-issues-possible-BIOS-incompatibilities/td-p/5704581“>reports that the newer and much faster SSDs including Intel 520 series, don’t work properly on Z-series (including even https://www3.hp.com/t5/Workstations-z-series-xw-series/Z1-and-SSD-6Gb-poor-performance/m-p/5708145#M13534“>Z1): slowdowns, crashes, loss of data. That said, the latest Z820 BIOS (1.12) seems to have fixed the compatibility problem with at least some SSDs
– SSDs are less prone to loss of data (generally) because of no moving parts, less heat generated, much smaller probability of catastrophic failure
– Bottom line, SSDs are great, and will be of appreciable benefit to your Avid editors – as long as they are properly tested and configured on your systems.HTH.
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
ProAvio / Enhance Tech 16-bay 3U 6Gbs SAS expander:
– $6,036 SRP with 16TB (16x 1TB SATA),
– $6,804 32TB (16x 2TB),
– $9,851 48TB (16x 3TB).ProAvio S8MS StudioRack 2U RM 8-bay 3Gbs non-expander: $558, no drives.
Enhance Tech UltraStor RS 2U RM 8 Bay 3Gbs non-expander (same as StudioRack S8MS):
– $4,968 with 16TB (8x2TB SATA) (PN: RS8SS-F16T)The extra $1100 for the 16TB version (or $1900 for twice as much) – includes much greater expandability, redundant power supplies.
All racks include fixed rails (non-sliding). Sliding rails optional.
RAID controllers: about $1500 extra from ProAvio when bundled together with the solution (Areca 1882x); about $1000 purchased separately (not from ProAvio).
The StudioRack, due to its non-expander nature, can be used with a less expensive RAID controller, e.g. Areca 1320-8X for around $400 (or less).
Hope this helps and please let me know if you need any additional info.
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
[Walter Soyka] “Just to add to this — the Z800 (and I assume Z820) has a set of cables that run from the SATA/SAS headers on the motherboard to the backplane where the tool-less, easy-insert drive sleds slide in.”
Aye, same exact design on the Z820 – working on one for a client’s MC6 system. Unlike Z620, the Z820 is very similar to the previous gen (Z800), with the exception of a new memory / CPU cover with integrated fans. It’s a bit of a bear to take it off.
Z8-series, like the new Dell T7600, allow for up to 8 internal drives total using standard HP parts (4 3.5″ in cold swap bays, 4 2.5″ in optical bays; drives in optical bays will not have cold-swap or front access; still fully tool-less). The T7600 on the other hand has front access and cold-swap for all of its 8 possible drives. Otherwise the two are very similar.
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
[Tom Daigon] “I dont think that will work for my HP Z820 system since it has its own style of drives that that might be unique to its easy access design.”
It doesn’t. There are only two “styles” of drives used on Z-series (and elsewhere) – SAS and SATA. If your Z uses SATA, they are compatible with any solutions outlined above. SAS – only with some (and usually not with stand-alone duplicators).
Windows activation – not an issue: HP (like Dell, Lenovo, etc.) uses Microsoft’s machine-specific activation routine, i.e. you can install HP flavor of Windows a zillion times on various hard drives (cloned or not), it’ll never deactivate.
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
[Craig Wolf] “https://www.enhance-tech.com/products/diskarrays/R8MS.html#Tab1
Looks like it is very similar to the S8. Could you tell me the difference? Also would love to know which controller you recommend. “
The same thing; ProAvio S8 is optimized and supported for A/V applications rather than general IT ones with R8MS.
Neither box is an “expander” type – i.e. can’t daisy-chain / attach additional storage units to it. Also, I don’t see a version supporting 6Gbs SAS line speeds, a must these days.
Generally if you must go with an 8-bay rack box rather than 12-16 (more efficient in space utilization and cost efficiency; after 16 bays it evens out), I’d much recommend getting an industry standard “expander” type with a 6Gbs SAS good quality backplane. Those are generally in the $1500 – $2500 range depending on features, build quality, brand. Before you add drives of course. Non-expander 8-bay ones – about $800 less.
I’ll check with ProAvio and will have more info shortly.
Controller: ATTO R680 or Areca 1882x. For server apps (which is what you intend to use it for), probably ATTO.
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
[Craig Wolf] “I’d love pricing. I am looking to buy ASAP and have a set budget. Alex, can I email you directly?”
Working on pricing; of course: my first and last name initials – at dv411 dot com.
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA -
[Glenn Venghaus] “Of course this solution has its limitations where it concerns multiple concurrent connections.”
Just to clarify: you will be using this setup just for one client system at a time? I.e. not for any sort of sharing (outside of sharing at a client level)?
“multiple concurrent connections” – only for MPIO purposes, i.e. between a single initiator and a target?
Alex Gerulaitis
Systems Integrator
DV411 – Los Angeles, CA