[Aindreas Gallagher]

dude, andy is good to go.

..I.. get itches thinking about plowing into avid.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

oh right, simple really – I mean opening two bins as two separate containers to view, but there can be no two or more containers opened in FCPX, as there is only the one browser?

you cannot open, view, scan and contrast say two keyword collections as two separate items? the basic architecture of FCPX does not allow for this operation, and I find it very useful when assessing footage: opening, and scanning multiple bins as discreet containers – FCPX’s keyword/event list populated into one single browser does not allow for this behaviour?
it does not allow for opening and onscreen spatial arrangement of bins/keyword collections. I find that ability quite powerful.
FCPX has only one single persistent browser as a single window view for all assets? that I do actually find rather limiting.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

yes,
I’m sort of short form broadcast spots meself, a bit of brand online stuff, and a wee bit of long form factual – but
the thing is that no one in london, no facility or production house seems even willing to discuss FCPX? I’m not trolling – I mean it.
It’s not at all like a wait and see. People aren’t wearing it. There’s deep structural anger with what has happened.

In even the larger London facilities no one, (correct me if I’m wrong, world) no one is taking a punt and installing even a seat for whizz about value.

I’ve asked in say four fairly large soho shops with multiple existing FCP seats and it is a dead sentence. Worst of all, a recurrent client that is primarily an online short form pure play servicing a major american sports brand and gaming vendors with teens of FCP seats (with not a single tape deck) delivering mostly off red or 5D literally will not countenance the software. …and i actually think it makes some sense for them?
but they will not wear it – they’re sitting on an xsan and FCP studio seats and they are ill pleased. They just will not go there.

And I would have rather liked for them to have as it would have been perfect kicking ground to use the software in anger – its nearly all music and typography based shortform. Although don’t get me started on FCPX’s handling of music based edits..

from my end I’m slowly figuring its… a long tail dying of FCP7, then premiere for most of my stuff? (I probably have to actually learn Avid – thank you universe)

and well, FCPX sort of drifts into an aperture style agonising slow death?

And that’s about the final and total end of Apple pro apps isn’t it?

there. the sky is falling on our heads.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Chris Harlan] ” FCP X offers visually something that is akin to Avid’s Super Bin”

I am piggishly ignorant on Avid, i’m just unable to go there.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[David Lawrence] ” it seems that the debate here is between people who think abstractly, in terms of words, and people who think spatially, in terms of objects.”

yep yep.
I’m an object guy, I really do need to see, feel and spatially manipulate video objects and the containers for those objects.

for instance: who here uses hotmail, we’re all on gmail right? well I am – tagging in gmail makes eminent sense to me, as it does in google reader – multiple semantic tags building up into an accessible, relatable database of tags. But its also worth noting maybe that in most instances where we see searchable tags based clouds the parent material itself is usually itself text in some form. email, or GTD apps or whatever.

But as an editor I don’t want a sea of tags returning keyword searches or persistent saved keyword collections into a single browser window – i want a broad canvas of stored physical video objects – you can argue that in pure engineering grok terms it’s less efficient than tags as keyword collections, but what it looses in semantic flexibility it gains immensely in reliable spatial reality – after a decent interval with a completely setup and well named set of bins, well named video objects and sequence selects bins, I’m deeply familiar with all the assets available to me. Which is the trick really isn’t it?
because once you’ve got the assets at recall, all the relational tagging is happening in your brain at el warp speed.

however you get there really -but that’s how I get there.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

ok as promised here was my day – there’s two things – I made big half specific bins and hold all the variations and shot alternates there, but then out of those bins, I set a pile of marker in and outs and used them to make a whole pile of selects sequences of my very favourite stuff that I think is going to be enough to populate the spot which is running to a couple of minutes of very fast cutting, so I’m editing mostly by skimming the select sequences to find the bits to go with the typography at that point and occasionally digging back into the big bins for all the rest of the stuff. Also the two icon bins represent stuff that came in last minute – I only need two performer shots so I’m not bothered tagging and naming, so I leave them in large icon view so I can easily pick out the blue performance clips.

so here is this big pile of bins on the left monitorrrrr…..

and here’s all my lovely sequence style skimmable bins stacked up in tabs, you will note that they are suspiciously like a skimmable filmstrip in action – the purple tab MAIN EDIT is my actual edit. and I stick the music track down loosely under all the selects to get an idea how they do with the tune.

so who the hell cares O gallchoir? I hear you cry.. well, me I guess, that was a fun edit today – just a really kicking tune, tons of good shots and some typography – yay.

But for me at any rate, doing this stuff – or even longform which I do an awful lot less of, I do need both these things – without tabs I don’t really think the sequence bin thing works, and I am deeply wedded to the bin sequence thing and I don’t like how cramped the event browser is, its just really really cramped – I want to be able to spatially arrange my bins and scan across them – you can take in an awful lot that way.

ultimately, on a personal level, FCPX feels like very good engineering metadata/database thought and very poor editing practise workflow thought.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

“[Aindreas Gallagher] “In FCPX the browser exposes one keyword collection at a time – “

[Jeremy Garchow] ” I guess I just find this to be not true,”

I’m in danger of sounding like a broken and stupid record here.. but doesn’t FCPX expose one keyword collection at a time? as in you click on the event, the event is presented in the browser, you click on a keyword, the keyword tagged items are displayed in the browser? Isn’t this a one at a time process?
My point is that there is no equivalent to being able to scan across multiple open bins? In FCPX you can only view one keyword collection at a time?
Its not an end of the universe issue, but I do find it a fairly serious limitation for a piece of editing software..

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Bins are not containers. They are doors, hallways, and shelves.”

mmm, I’m pretty sure they’re containers – they hold things, and you can view multiple open bins at the same time, which I do honestly rather like to do?

In FCPX the browser exposes one keyword collection at a time – I’m really not being argumentative – I find that a reasonably significant limitation in the software- will post the pics in a bit – its a thing I’m editing today. there is much multiple bin behaviour, and then some tabbed sequences as other type skimmable selects bins going on…

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Carsten Orlt] “combine any keywords you like into one new selection.- Effectively opening multiple bins at once”

nope, thats about as useful as taking the contents of a load of different bins, dumping them into one bin, and then only being able to figure out who’s what by twirling down arrows to see the associated keywords for all the clip items you just dumped into the one bin.

It is not even in the tiniest way like opening multiple bins at once. its very like stringing multiple tags into a single metadata query.

[Carsten Orlt] “If you have Roles assigned you can even group the results by them.
Or just show favourites parts of your newly selected clips.
Or just rejected parts..”

that all sounds like tremendous OCD fun… but it still doesn’t answer the intrinsic issue with the event browser – its one bin at a time – which is not on.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

Totally true Andrew, if we had tear away tabs, or in this case actually, an event browser that could clone itself into multiple instances to simultaneously represent multiple keyword collections… Oh Hang on wait. Apple are never going to do anything like that. The point surely is that we have *an event browser*. You know as well as i do that apple are never going to muddy the conceptual waters by having *the* event browser multiply in that fashion.
It never takes the name of the keyword collection – it never is a container. It is the browser. It represents whatever you click on to the left of it, be it event or keyword metadata. Also do we really see tabs making a comeback? Considering where apple are going with single window applications? I rather don’t. I think that is a glued together one window application.

I think only being able to see one keyword collection/bin at a time is really extremely limiting and something of a crazy idea for an editing application. As is the fashion these days, I might post a pic later as an example of workflow on a project to illustrate what I’m on about.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics