[Adam Schoales]

Thanks Darren, this is very helpful for the future.

What I had done for this one was very similar: created a new library on an external shuttle. Copied the project into that new library, and consolidated (using externally managed media since I wasn’t sure that Resolve would like the FCP X library structure) so all the new media was in a folder called “media”. Then I exported the XML (using vr. 1.4 since I wasn’t sure if Resolve would read 1.5), and passed that along. So the step I must have skipped was

“In the event with your project, select ‘file’ then copy event to Library ‘consolidated media library’. This will refresh all your clips AND multicam clips to reference the new volume.”

though I did check with my original drive off and things were definitely linked to the consolodated media folder.

Like I said, it seems like the team at the post house doing the colour had issues with only the clips that were housed as “synchronized clips”. So I figured this is where the problem lay.

Another person I spoke to suggested “breaking apart clips” (command+shift+g), which as Jeremy mentions strips sizing and such, so it’s perhaps not a perfect solution (it also doesn’t work on anything that was retimed, and there was lots of retiming in this).

I’ve now downloaded Resolve and installed it on my machine so I can test things out in the future. I’d love to have this sorted out for future cuts. Of course as soon as something goes wrong everyone points the finger at Final Cut Pro X and I’m trying to say “No, no! It’s not the program’s fault, it’s mine! Blame me!” haha.

Appreciate your insight.

[Adam Schoales]

I saw that Mike. Thanks so much!

It also looks like it’s the synchronized clips that are causing the problems, so that’s good to know. I’ll have to look into a solution for the future.

[Adam Schoales]

I’ll have to try that. I maybe should have used Multiclips instead of “synchronized” clips.

I thought it was all going so smoothly. I knew it all was too good to be true!

[Adam Schoales]

The first public beta of Yosemite is out today. STILL beta, but further along.

Curious as to how FCP 7 is doing, if it’s any better… any worse… more of the same…

[Adam Schoales]

One final note, from the apple support document:

“Final Cut Pro uses your new storage locations for future source media file imports, cache files, and backups.

Important: Existing source media and backup files remain in their original locations. If you changed the cache storage location, Final Cut Pro offers to move your existing active render files and other cache files (such as thumbnail images and audio waveform files) to the new location.”

This is where all of my confusion lay. I assumed that when you set that new location Final Cut would then re-scan the new location to check to see if any media is already there. It does not, it simply sets it as the new location for everything that is to come after.

Were it to behave like I expected it to (something I don’t think is an unreasonable assumption, nor do any of my co-workers haha), checking to see if any media is in the folder the user has now set, all my problems and questions would go away. Fingers crossed that it will in the future.

[Adam Schoales]

[Robin S. Kurz] “See, that’s where you’re losing me i.e. the confusion and problems begin, because you do not have to save the proxies externally. As I’ve been saying all along, you simply store them WITHIN the library, copy THAT (if even needed) back and forth, done. And if that is too much, just copy the Currentversion file each time. Done. But unless you need to be editing the exact same project on multiple machines, I don’t even see why you would want or need to.”

Well again, as I’ve been saying before copying the whole library takes more time than I have somedays. Yes, I realize I can copy the current version file but I do worry that I’m somehow causing corruption down the line (the last project I did this on has all sorts of weird bugs in it, and I worry that it’s related to doing this. Not saying it *is* but it’s why I’m trying to avoid this behaviour on this current project. But you’re right, this should solve the problem.

[Robin S. Kurz] “Exactly. And all I’ve been trying to tell you the whole time is that THAT is your error in logic or maybe just misconception. There is no need to store the proxies externally i.e. if you don’t, but rather IN THE LIBRARY, then your problem is solved as described above.”

Let’s be clear; I understand why it’s happening, I simply don’t understand the reasoning. Put another way; why give me the OPTION to store proxies externally if I can’t point final cut to them at another time should they move/explicitly reconnect them. I don’t think my logic is unsound in assuming that because I can store them externally, and I can also directly point FCP X to where media lives that it should recognize when that location changes. I understand that this is not the case, but I’m curious as to why. That’s something only the engineers at Apple can explain.

[Robin S. Kurz] “The only real problem you in fact have (or may be just creating for yourself?) is that there is no extra “reconnect” command for proxies. Good? Bad? I don’t know. From the way I understand the logic and use it myself it isn’t necessary either. Again, for me. Even though I do exactly what it is you’re doing all the time. If that is something you feel is essential for your preferred workflow (i.e. the way it can/does work isn’t suitable) then you need to send feedback accordingly.”

I’d argue bad. But, you’re right, there’s a solution which is simply storing the proxies in the Library.

[Robin S. Kurz] “Mind you, I say that sincerely. I’m not trying to be combative. I’m merely trying to tell you how it can work and how it works superbly… for me in the same situation. And from what I gather, you’re not in a multi-machine situation either. In which case, now that I’ve thought about it, that could prove to be very helpful, yes, to avoid constant copying.”

I don’t take you as combative, so fear not. I appreciate you working through this with me. It’s also complicated to do this kind of discussion via messes and not in person.

[Robin S. Kurz] “Bottom line: you simply need to store the proxies in the library and work from there wherever you are. That way you can easily switch to the original media when and if needed in the office and to the proxies no matter where you are. Bingo. Things work exactly as you’d like. Or rather, in this case and at the stage you are at, you simply modify the library settings to store the proxies in the library and CONSOLIDATE.”

This is what I will continue to do. If you haven’t been experiencing problems updating the “current version” files then I’m less concerned about doing it (though I’m always curious WHICH to update… there’s always more than one).

Like I said, at this point I have an understanding of how it works and simply pining for my perfect solution which is a solution in which you’re library file is nothing more than metadata that you can easily copy back and forth or email or what have you. Then ADDING the option for relinking proxy media (or, put another way, if you tell final cut pro “this is the folder where my media now is” it scans it for both original media and proxy media” and if it finds either or reconnects it).

[Robin S. Kurz] “Not true. You couldn’t have done it any other way with previous versions either. If anything, then only much more constrained (with X <10.1) than it is.

This will descend into more sidebars but let’s go for it anyways.

In previous versions I had my project file. At the office it was connected to a folder called “media pro-res”. At the end of the day I’d copy it dropbox. Next day I’m not feeling well and decide to work from home. I grab that tiny project file and open it on my Laptop. Media is missing, so I point it to my folder of proxies I generated (using compressor since this is FCP 7) and start working. Once I’m back at the office I open up that file and reconnect to the original media.

That was my former proxy workflow, and is ostensibly what I want to go back to. FCP X changed things slightly by adding the little switch to flip between original media and proxies, where as final cut 7 (to my knowledge) didn’t have that and just let you reconnect to whatever. And I supposed theoretically FCP X could do the same, I could reconnect to the media in that proxy folder, and then get back to the office and reconnect to the original media but people were saying don’t do that.

There’s all sorts of other wrinkles down the line here about why I can’t just work the way I’d want to; for example the portable drive I’m using is thunderbolt since my laptop supports that but the mac pro I work on at the office doesn’t, meaning I can’t just work from ONE library file. We have a thunderbolt mac at the office which I can plug the drive into but it acts as a “server”, and sadly you cannot mount the drive on the network and work from that library file, which means I then need to copy it over. Which is, again, why it’d be great if it was a small file that contained nothing but metadata. I realize these are a great deal of what-ifs and caveats, but again, it seems like there is a solution here it just hasn’t been incorporated into the software.

Once again, I thank you for talking me through this, and apologies for all the confusion along the way. At this point I’ll heed your advice and stick to just copying the current versions and away we go. It’s *clear* that FCP X is not yet designed to do things the way I want to do it, but I am hopeful that in the future it is.

[Adam Schoales]

Again, it’s entirely possible I’m not making myself clear enough in my explanations so I do apologize for that (though it sounds like other people get where I’m going with this), so let me try again to clarify for you.

The original media, which is very large, lives on my internal raid at the office. The library references that media. Proxies were then generated for that media so that I could take it on the go with me on a portable harddrive and edit on the road, from home, etc. The latest update of FCP meant you could store those proxy files OUTSIDE the library, meaning the library file stayed small (like a FCP 7 project file), and all my media lived in folders externally.

THE PROBLEM is that when you open up that library on a new machine, your media goes offline.

Again, let’s break it down: at the office I have a folder called PROJECT X. This is where I told Final Cut Pro i’d like to store my media. So now we have two folders, ORIGINAL MEDIA which FCP references, and the generated PROXY MEDIA folder, created by FCP with all the proxy media.

Now I want to work from home but don’t need the original media and just want proxies so I can edit off my smaller portable drive. I copy over the library folder, and the PROXY MEDIA folder, so what I essentially have is a duplicate of my PROJECT X folder, just without the ORIGINAL MEDIA.

I get home, boot up the library, and FCP throws up the warning about the storage locations missing. So I point it to the new PROJECT X folder on the external drive. AT THIS POINT one would assume that final cut should go “okay, original media is missing, but I see the proxy media folder, so let’s reconnect those proxies to there”. I go over to the light-switch, flip over to proxy media and… nothing. It says that the proxy media is missing. This is where the problem lies; the proxy media exists but final cut doesn’t seem to see it.

Now, the other option is you can tell it to reconnect your media, but this will only reconnect what it considers to be the “original/optimized” media. While this is theoretically fine, and when I copy the library back over to my internal RAID it should theoretically allow me to just reconnect back to the original media (sort of what we would have done in FCP 7 – as long as files are all named the same you can simply point to various folders) that’s not a risk I’m willing to take at this point since I don’t fully understand how FCP X is handling this sort of stuff.

As a result, I’m forced to return to a workflow from prior to the latest update in which the original media is stored outside the library and referenced, while the proxy media is generated and kept INSIDE the library file. Now that library file is not a tiny file, but rather ~100 GB. So say I’ve been working remotely and want to now update my local RAID version I either have to copy the whole ~100 GB file (slow), open both libraries and copy projects from project to project (not too difficult unless I’m using a thunderbolt drive as my portable, since my MacPro at the office has no thunderbolt connection), or export XML of the projects and import that into the local library (so far the easiest solution). I can also, as you mentioned, copy the “currentversion” files over, which I’ve done in the past but have been avoiding that since, again, I’m concerned about messing with stuff inside the library too much.

So again, while what you’re saying is true, there’s these little caveats along the way (like file transfer times etc.)

So, ultimately what I’d love to see is a way in which I can open up a library offsite, point to my new folder, have FCP recognize that the original/optimized media is gone, but the proxy media is there and allow me to reconnect those proxies AS PROXIES and get back to work (otherwise storying the proxies externally has a lot less value). So far the only way to do this is to allow FCP to manage the proxies INSIDE the library.

Make anymore sense? Again, you’re right there are work arounds, none of which are particularly elegant, and it seems like there should be an easy enough solution here to get this workflow up and running.

[Adam Schoales]

Thanks for that tip Mark. You’re right, it’s not a perfect solution, but it’s not a terrible one either. One to keep in my pocket.

It does seem like Apple is *sort of* listening to our requests for making FCP X better and more robust so hopefully if enough people ask for a better “offsite” workflow we they’ll listen.

(that and the ability to colour code clips/roles)

[Adam Schoales]

Yeah I get the impression that FCP X simply isn’t designed for the workflow I’m hoping for. Hopefully that’ll change in the future.

As to why I’m copying things, maybe I’m not making myself clear enough but let me just break down the scenario a little more clearly.

Create Library on work MacPro. 1.5 TB Media stored locally on internal RAID. Referenced by library.
Create proxy material (100+ GB) which is stored *inside* the library (since we can’t reference external proxy media at this point, at least not in the way I want to).
Copy library to USB 3 drive so that we can edit from home on laptop if need arrises.

So now we have two libraries that need to be kept in sync. There are two methods to do so. The first involves simply copying the library back and forth overwriting the previous library. This is slower (since you have to transfer 100 GB of data) but sort of ensures that so long as you copy the most recent library you will not lose anything along the way.

The other way is opening both libraries on a machine and copying project files between said libraries (or doing XML outputs). Fairly easy to copy projects from portable library onto MacPro library, a little more difficult to do the other way around.

Again, in a *perfect world* I’d love a workflow where the library file is tiny, I have a folder of Original Media and Proxy media. I copy that proxy media to my portable drive, along with the most recent library file. When at home simply pull up the most recent library file, ignore warnings that there’s no original material, relink to the proxy material and get back to cutting. Once I’m back at the office, take that library file, reconnect to the original media and get back to cutting. Much more similar to the FCP 7 workflow wherein my library file is essentially the equivalent of a .FCP project file in FCP 7. As I mentioned it’s clear this is not how FCP X is designed to work, but perhaps in the future will be to allow for this kind of workflow (since I imagine I cant be the only one who has to sometimes work on the road and doesn’t want to lug around a terabyte and a half of media).

[Adam Schoales]

Just finished a week of working this way – with the original media outside the library, proxy media in the library, and copying the library to an external drive to work from home.

It’s not super painful, since I just have to open up both my local/external libraries and copy the updaded project files back and forth, but does seem to be a bit odd.

I’d still love for a way in which the library files simply acts like a projects did in FCP 7 and I could easily copy that, or even email it (since it’d be so small), open it up on another computer, and it recognize “hey, the original media isn’t here, but all the proxy media is, so we can work”.

It just seems odd to me that you can store the proxy media externally but not reference it if it’s copied/moved to another location. But maybe I’m just misunderstanding the feature.