Working offsite with just proxies in FCP 10.1.2

[Robin S. kurz]

[Adam Schoales] “So I try to reconnect the media; well it reconnects to the proxies, but as “original media”. In other words, now my original media is connected to proxies and I’m still being told my proxies are offline.”

Uh-oh…. biiiiiig mistake. That will seriously mess things up if you try to reconnect to the REAL original media! Be sure NOT to try that with that library but rather start over.

[Adam Schoales] “In a PERFECT world I’d like to be able to have proxies live at the office and at home, the high res files just on the work machines, and then simply have to copy just my library file at the end of the day (since the proxies aren’t going to change) knowing that I can pull that up at home, reference my proxies and away we go.”

I think you may be “overthinking” the matter. First off: do you need optimized or do you (at this stage) just plan to use the original media and proxies? Because if you don’t need optimized media, you simply need to set up your library to REFERENCE (leave in place) the original, external media and set your proxy media to the library that you store locally on your machine. With that things should work exactly as you expect. I.e. that’s how I have done it in the past and still do for the exact same reasons. That way if you’re connected to the original media you can edit with that, if not (you’re out and about) it will go offline and you can switch to proxy to continue. There’s absolutely no copying, reconnecting or the likes needed or necessary, since the directories never actually change. Only one goes missing temporarily. But even if you DO initially save the library externally and copy it back and forth as needed, there should be no such problems for the same reason. And the library should only always contain the proxy files and nothing else.

Just be aware that certain files such as stills and some audio do not have extra proxy files, but rather are considered fine as they are and therefore reference the original media in both modes. So you’ll want to test your proxy mode BEFORE you take off (disconnect the external media and switch to proxy), to make sure all your files actually have media behind them. Kind of an unfortunate implementation imho and quite the gotcha if you don’t know about it. In that case you’ll have to carry copies of the affected files along with you and reconnect as needed.

[Adam Schoales]

[Robin S. Kurz] “I think you may be “overthinking” the matter. First off: do you need optimized or do you (at this stage) just plan to use the original media and proxies? Because if you don’t need optimized media, you simply need to set up your library to REFERENCE (leave in place) the original, external media and set your proxy media to the library that you store locally on your machine. With that things should work exactly as you expect. I.e. that’s how I have done it in the past and still do for the exact same reasons. That way if you’re connected to the original media you can edit with that, if not (you’re out and about) it will go offline and you can switch to proxy to continue. There’s absolutely no copying, reconnecting or the likes needed or necessary, since the directories never actually change. Only one goes missing temporarily. But even if you DO initially save the library externally and copy it back and forth as needed, there should be no such problems for the same reason. And the library should only always contain the proxy files and nothing else.”

To clarify, I may have been confusing terminologies here. Original media is ProRes so there is no optimised media, but I was using the two terms interchangeably.

So; there’s original prores media that’s over 1.5 terabytes and stays at the office, and there’s the proxy media which is at the office and on a portable drive for working at home. My hopes were the proxy could live on the portable drive, outside the library, so I’m just copying new library files over (and have the added benefit of being able to easily backup library files to Dropbox). With having Proxy files living INSIDE the library it was way too big to easily backup.

Based on your thoughts, this is exactly how I worked before. The downside was that making any changes facilitated copying the whole library file over which has ~130 gb of proxies (while it’s true I could simply copy project files from one library to the other, in the early logging stage there’s no real way to do that), so my THOUGHT was having the proxies live outside the library meant that I’d just be copying a tiny library file back and forth. Obviously that’s not (yet) the case (or I’m doing something wrong).

At any rate, I’ll switch to my old setup (proxies in the library) and go from there.

[Robin S. kurz]

[Adam Schoales] “My hopes were the proxy could live on the portable drive, outside the library, so I’m just copying new library files over (and have the added benefit of being able to easily backup library files to Dropbox). With having Proxy files living INSIDE the library it was way too big to easily backup.”

You’re only making things unnecessarily complicated for yourself IMHO. Use the library filled with proxies locally and simply attach and detach the original media as needed. No copying or moving around needed. And if you’re worried about backups, that’s what the built-in backup function is for. That doesn’t backup MEDIA, just the library (database) files. So it’s irrelevant whether you have any media in it or not. I have mine set to my Copy folder (https://copy.com?r=D4Fz3M if you want additional 20GB for starters that work exactly as DropBox does).

And if you’re not using the built-in backups, then you’re also depriving yourself of some great functionality as far as restoring is concerned.

[Adam Schoales]

Just finished a week of working this way – with the original media outside the library, proxy media in the library, and copying the library to an external drive to work from home.

It’s not super painful, since I just have to open up both my local/external libraries and copy the updaded project files back and forth, but does seem to be a bit odd.

I’d still love for a way in which the library files simply acts like a projects did in FCP 7 and I could easily copy that, or even email it (since it’d be so small), open it up on another computer, and it recognize “hey, the original media isn’t here, but all the proxy media is, so we can work”.

It just seems odd to me that you can store the proxy media externally but not reference it if it’s copied/moved to another location. But maybe I’m just misunderstanding the feature.

[Robin S. kurz]

Well, you could technically just copy the “Current Version” file to and from the library. But I don’t understand why you’re even copying anything. If you have it locally, then you simply need to connect the volume with the original footage and switch. Done. No copying needed.

And no, there is no separate relinking of proxies. If you choose Relink, FCP automatically assumes you’re wanting to relink the original/optimized. Which is why it’s detrimental to do that and point to the proxies. After that your proxies are considered the original/optimized and any existing files of sorts are deleted.

Maybe put in an enhancement request.

[Adam Schoales]

Yeah I get the impression that FCP X simply isn’t designed for the workflow I’m hoping for. Hopefully that’ll change in the future.

As to why I’m copying things, maybe I’m not making myself clear enough but let me just break down the scenario a little more clearly.

Create Library on work MacPro. 1.5 TB Media stored locally on internal RAID. Referenced by library.
Create proxy material (100+ GB) which is stored *inside* the library (since we can’t reference external proxy media at this point, at least not in the way I want to).
Copy library to USB 3 drive so that we can edit from home on laptop if need arrises.

So now we have two libraries that need to be kept in sync. There are two methods to do so. The first involves simply copying the library back and forth overwriting the previous library. This is slower (since you have to transfer 100 GB of data) but sort of ensures that so long as you copy the most recent library you will not lose anything along the way.

The other way is opening both libraries on a machine and copying project files between said libraries (or doing XML outputs). Fairly easy to copy projects from portable library onto MacPro library, a little more difficult to do the other way around.

Again, in a *perfect world* I’d love a workflow where the library file is tiny, I have a folder of Original Media and Proxy media. I copy that proxy media to my portable drive, along with the most recent library file. When at home simply pull up the most recent library file, ignore warnings that there’s no original material, relink to the proxy material and get back to cutting. Once I’m back at the office, take that library file, reconnect to the original media and get back to cutting. Much more similar to the FCP 7 workflow wherein my library file is essentially the equivalent of a .FCP project file in FCP 7. As I mentioned it’s clear this is not how FCP X is designed to work, but perhaps in the future will be to allow for this kind of workflow (since I imagine I cant be the only one who has to sometimes work on the road and doesn’t want to lug around a terabyte and a half of media).

[Mark Verkerk]

Adam, have the same problem as you – wanting to keep a work and home copy of the project in sync, and only having proxies available at home. Not being able to relink proxies is shame.

My workaround has been to name my external disk that I use at home the same as the one at work and make sure that the proxies sit in the same folder structure as on the Raid at work. You’re actually then fooling the project into thinking it’s still connected to its original proxy folder and all’s well.

Not ideal but it works. Hope this helps.

Mark

[Adam Schoales]

Thanks for that tip Mark. You’re right, it’s not a perfect solution, but it’s not a terrible one either. One to keep in my pocket.

It does seem like Apple is *sort of* listening to our requests for making FCP X better and more robust so hopefully if enough people ask for a better “offsite” workflow we they’ll listen.

(that and the ability to colour code clips/roles)

[Robin S. kurz]

Sorry, not trying to be thick, but I just don’t get it. The whole thing makes little sense to me. There’s either a kink in my train of thought or yours. Because if you’re taking the proxies with you, why should you care if they are in the library, in an extra folder or wherever? If you copy the library e.g. from a server which contains the proxies, then you have the exact same files for/on each. The only thing that could possibly change would be render files, data files or cache files, all of which are irrelevant since they’d simply be regenerated as needed. Aside from that, just the “CurrentVersion.fcpevent” files which are tiny and, as I’ve said before, can be copied as and if needed. Elegant? No, but easily done.

What am I missing?

I don’t doubt that at some point the (separate) relinking of proxies is bound to happen, but then that is a very unique workflow imho, so much that I doubt is very high up on the list. IF it’s on the list. I can’t think of any NLE that would allow that exact workflow either, unless something has happened with updates recently that I missed.

[Adam Schoales]

Again, it’s entirely possible I’m not making myself clear enough in my explanations so I do apologize for that (though it sounds like other people get where I’m going with this), so let me try again to clarify for you.

The original media, which is very large, lives on my internal raid at the office. The library references that media. Proxies were then generated for that media so that I could take it on the go with me on a portable harddrive and edit on the road, from home, etc. The latest update of FCP meant you could store those proxy files OUTSIDE the library, meaning the library file stayed small (like a FCP 7 project file), and all my media lived in folders externally.

THE PROBLEM is that when you open up that library on a new machine, your media goes offline.

Again, let’s break it down: at the office I have a folder called PROJECT X. This is where I told Final Cut Pro i’d like to store my media. So now we have two folders, ORIGINAL MEDIA which FCP references, and the generated PROXY MEDIA folder, created by FCP with all the proxy media.

Now I want to work from home but don’t need the original media and just want proxies so I can edit off my smaller portable drive. I copy over the library folder, and the PROXY MEDIA folder, so what I essentially have is a duplicate of my PROJECT X folder, just without the ORIGINAL MEDIA.

I get home, boot up the library, and FCP throws up the warning about the storage locations missing. So I point it to the new PROJECT X folder on the external drive. AT THIS POINT one would assume that final cut should go “okay, original media is missing, but I see the proxy media folder, so let’s reconnect those proxies to there”. I go over to the light-switch, flip over to proxy media and… nothing. It says that the proxy media is missing. This is where the problem lies; the proxy media exists but final cut doesn’t seem to see it.

Now, the other option is you can tell it to reconnect your media, but this will only reconnect what it considers to be the “original/optimized” media. While this is theoretically fine, and when I copy the library back over to my internal RAID it should theoretically allow me to just reconnect back to the original media (sort of what we would have done in FCP 7 – as long as files are all named the same you can simply point to various folders) that’s not a risk I’m willing to take at this point since I don’t fully understand how FCP X is handling this sort of stuff.

As a result, I’m forced to return to a workflow from prior to the latest update in which the original media is stored outside the library and referenced, while the proxy media is generated and kept INSIDE the library file. Now that library file is not a tiny file, but rather ~100 GB. So say I’ve been working remotely and want to now update my local RAID version I either have to copy the whole ~100 GB file (slow), open both libraries and copy projects from project to project (not too difficult unless I’m using a thunderbolt drive as my portable, since my MacPro at the office has no thunderbolt connection), or export XML of the projects and import that into the local library (so far the easiest solution). I can also, as you mentioned, copy the “currentversion” files over, which I’ve done in the past but have been avoiding that since, again, I’m concerned about messing with stuff inside the library too much.

So again, while what you’re saying is true, there’s these little caveats along the way (like file transfer times etc.)

So, ultimately what I’d love to see is a way in which I can open up a library offsite, point to my new folder, have FCP recognize that the original/optimized media is gone, but the proxy media is there and allow me to reconnect those proxies AS PROXIES and get back to work (otherwise storying the proxies externally has a lot less value). So far the only way to do this is to allow FCP to manage the proxies INSIDE the library.

Make anymore sense? Again, you’re right there are work arounds, none of which are particularly elegant, and it seems like there should be an easy enough solution here to get this workflow up and running.