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Working offsite with just proxies in FCP 10.1.2
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[Adam Schoales] “it sounds like other people get where I’m going with this”
Not sure where the plural is coming from. ;-D
[Adam Schoales] “The latest update of FCP meant you could store those proxy files OUTSIDE the library”
See, that’s where you’re losing me i.e. the confusion and problems begin, because you do not have to save the proxies externally. As I’ve been saying all along, you simply store them WITHIN the library, copy THAT (if even needed) back and forth, done. And if that is too much, just copy the Currentversion file each time. Done. But unless you need to be editing the exact same project on multiple machines, I don’t even see why you would want or need to.
[Adam Schoales] “(like a FCP 7 project file)”
Not exactly a fair comparison, since in 7 you’d more than likely be working with nothing other than the originally ingested media that could also sit anywhere. Just as you can with the current version of X, only it’s called a “library”, in which case, as described, it would also be very small. No difference. X has in effect caught up with 7 in that exact respect. Your problem is with the proxy files, which I personally never once used in 10 years of 7, did you? Using 7’s proxy feature was a huge PITA and essentially useless IMHO.
[Adam Schoales] “THE PROBLEM is that when you open up that library on a new machine, your media goes offline.”
Yes, of course. Any media you don’t in fact have goes offline. If it’s the original or optimized media, then you can simply reconnect. If you want to work with the proxy media (which you can’t explicitly reconnect on its own, no) you simply save that to the library, after which there is no relinking needed. It is recognized automatically wherever you take it.
[Adam Schoales] “I copy over the library folder, and the PROXY MEDIA folder”
Exactly. And all I’ve been trying to tell you the whole time is that THAT is your error in logic or maybe just misconception. There is no need to store the proxies externally i.e. if you don’t, but rather IN THE LIBRARY, then your problem is solved as described above.
[Adam Schoales] “AT THIS POINT one would assume that final cut should go “okay, original media is missing, but I see the proxy media folder, so let’s reconnect those proxies to there”.”
And it doesn’t work that way. As I’ve said before. X looks into THE LIBRARY first and foremost for any and all media. If it finds original media (or their aliases that lead to it) it uses that. If it finds optimized media (or aliases), it uses THAT, even if there is no original media. If it finds PROXY media (or, again, resolvable aliases), it will use THAT (if you switch). The only difference between the three is, that you can ONLY reconnect the original and/or the optimized. Both with the reconnect media command. Proxy has no such command. If the actual proxies are not IN THE LIBRARY and it cannot resolve the aliases, game over. The only real problem you in fact have (or may be just creating for yourself?) is that there is no extra “reconnect” command for proxies. Good? Bad? I don’t know. From the way I understand the logic and use it myself it isn’t necessary either. Again, for me. Even though I do exactly what it is you’re doing all the time. If that is something you feel is essential for your preferred workflow (i.e. the way it can/does work isn’t suitable) then you need to send feedback accordingly.
Mind you, I say that sincerely. I’m not trying to be combative. I’m merely trying to tell you how it can work and how it works superbly… for me in the same situation. And from what I gather, you’re not in a multi-machine situation either. In which case, now that I’ve thought about it, that could prove to be very helpful, yes, to avoid constant copying.
Bottom line: you simply need to store the proxies in the library and work from there wherever you are. That way you can easily switch to the original media when and if needed in the office and to the proxies no matter where you are. Bingo. Things work exactly as you’d like. Or rather, in this case and at the stage you are at, you simply modify the library settings to store the proxies in the library and CONSOLIDATE.
[Adam Schoales] “As a result, I’m forced to return to a workflow from prior to the latest update in which the original media is stored outside the library and referenced, while the proxy media is generated and kept INSIDE the library file. Now that library file is not a tiny file, but rather ~100 GB.”
Not true. You couldn’t have done it any other way with previous versions either. If anything, then only much more constrained (with X <10.1) than it is. It’s data you’re having to copy (really only once) either way. I don’t see how it’s relevant whether that media comes in a (separate) regular folder or along with the library that you’re copying. And since these, from what you’re saying, already exist in both locations, why would you want or need to recopy them every time? Simply work from the one copy no matter where you are, as described above, and you’re good, no?
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[Robin S. Kurz] “See, that’s where you’re losing me i.e. the confusion and problems begin, because you do not have to save the proxies externally. As I’ve been saying all along, you simply store them WITHIN the library, copy THAT (if even needed) back and forth, done. And if that is too much, just copy the Currentversion file each time. Done. But unless you need to be editing the exact same project on multiple machines, I don’t even see why you would want or need to.”
Well again, as I’ve been saying before copying the whole library takes more time than I have somedays. Yes, I realize I can copy the current version file but I do worry that I’m somehow causing corruption down the line (the last project I did this on has all sorts of weird bugs in it, and I worry that it’s related to doing this. Not saying it *is* but it’s why I’m trying to avoid this behaviour on this current project. But you’re right, this should solve the problem.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Exactly. And all I’ve been trying to tell you the whole time is that THAT is your error in logic or maybe just misconception. There is no need to store the proxies externally i.e. if you don’t, but rather IN THE LIBRARY, then your problem is solved as described above.”
Let’s be clear; I understand why it’s happening, I simply don’t understand the reasoning. Put another way; why give me the OPTION to store proxies externally if I can’t point final cut to them at another time should they move/explicitly reconnect them. I don’t think my logic is unsound in assuming that because I can store them externally, and I can also directly point FCP X to where media lives that it should recognize when that location changes. I understand that this is not the case, but I’m curious as to why. That’s something only the engineers at Apple can explain.
[Robin S. Kurz] “The only real problem you in fact have (or may be just creating for yourself?) is that there is no extra “reconnect” command for proxies. Good? Bad? I don’t know. From the way I understand the logic and use it myself it isn’t necessary either. Again, for me. Even though I do exactly what it is you’re doing all the time. If that is something you feel is essential for your preferred workflow (i.e. the way it can/does work isn’t suitable) then you need to send feedback accordingly.”
I’d argue bad. But, you’re right, there’s a solution which is simply storing the proxies in the Library.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Mind you, I say that sincerely. I’m not trying to be combative. I’m merely trying to tell you how it can work and how it works superbly… for me in the same situation. And from what I gather, you’re not in a multi-machine situation either. In which case, now that I’ve thought about it, that could prove to be very helpful, yes, to avoid constant copying.”
I don’t take you as combative, so fear not. I appreciate you working through this with me. It’s also complicated to do this kind of discussion via messes and not in person.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Bottom line: you simply need to store the proxies in the library and work from there wherever you are. That way you can easily switch to the original media when and if needed in the office and to the proxies no matter where you are. Bingo. Things work exactly as you’d like. Or rather, in this case and at the stage you are at, you simply modify the library settings to store the proxies in the library and CONSOLIDATE.”
This is what I will continue to do. If you haven’t been experiencing problems updating the “current version” files then I’m less concerned about doing it (though I’m always curious WHICH to update… there’s always more than one).
Like I said, at this point I have an understanding of how it works and simply pining for my perfect solution which is a solution in which you’re library file is nothing more than metadata that you can easily copy back and forth or email or what have you. Then ADDING the option for relinking proxy media (or, put another way, if you tell final cut pro “this is the folder where my media now is” it scans it for both original media and proxy media” and if it finds either or reconnects it).
[Robin S. Kurz] “Not true. You couldn’t have done it any other way with previous versions either. If anything, then only much more constrained (with X <10.1) than it is.
This will descend into more sidebars but let’s go for it anyways.
In previous versions I had my project file. At the office it was connected to a folder called “media pro-res”. At the end of the day I’d copy it dropbox. Next day I’m not feeling well and decide to work from home. I grab that tiny project file and open it on my Laptop. Media is missing, so I point it to my folder of proxies I generated (using compressor since this is FCP 7) and start working. Once I’m back at the office I open up that file and reconnect to the original media.
That was my former proxy workflow, and is ostensibly what I want to go back to. FCP X changed things slightly by adding the little switch to flip between original media and proxies, where as final cut 7 (to my knowledge) didn’t have that and just let you reconnect to whatever. And I supposed theoretically FCP X could do the same, I could reconnect to the media in that proxy folder, and then get back to the office and reconnect to the original media but people were saying don’t do that.
There’s all sorts of other wrinkles down the line here about why I can’t just work the way I’d want to; for example the portable drive I’m using is thunderbolt since my laptop supports that but the mac pro I work on at the office doesn’t, meaning I can’t just work from ONE library file. We have a thunderbolt mac at the office which I can plug the drive into but it acts as a “server”, and sadly you cannot mount the drive on the network and work from that library file, which means I then need to copy it over. Which is, again, why it’d be great if it was a small file that contained nothing but metadata. I realize these are a great deal of what-ifs and caveats, but again, it seems like there is a solution here it just hasn’t been incorporated into the software.
Once again, I thank you for talking me through this, and apologies for all the confusion along the way. At this point I’ll heed your advice and stick to just copying the current versions and away we go. It’s *clear* that FCP X is not yet designed to do things the way I want to do it, but I am hopeful that in the future it is.
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One final note, from the apple support document:
“Final Cut Pro uses your new storage locations for future source media file imports, cache files, and backups.
Important: Existing source media and backup files remain in their original locations. If you changed the cache storage location, Final Cut Pro offers to move your existing active render files and other cache files (such as thumbnail images and audio waveform files) to the new location.”
This is where all of my confusion lay. I assumed that when you set that new location Final Cut would then re-scan the new location to check to see if any media is already there. It does not, it simply sets it as the new location for everything that is to come after.
Were it to behave like I expected it to (something I don’t think is an unreasonable assumption, nor do any of my co-workers haha), checking to see if any media is in the folder the user has now set, all my problems and questions would go away. Fingers crossed that it will in the future.
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[Adam Schoales] “I assumed that when you set that new location Final Cut would then re-scan the new location to check to see if any media is already there.”
No, as I said before, FCP scans nothing but the library and goes by what is in there. Be it original media or aliases that lead to specific (original) media. If anything, you’re simply defining a new location for media that is being referenced by aliases that exist in the library, yes.
[Adam Schoales] “It does not, it simply sets it as the new location for everything that is to come after.”
Exactly. That’s media management. And it’s a good thing that it’s that way. That makes it impossible for FCP to change anything outside of the library. If it did or could, that would be detrimental. It’s a (brilliant) feature, not a bug.
[Adam Schoales] “checking to see if any media is in the folder the user has now set”
X is extremely strict about metadata, which again is a feature. That makes the media management rock solid if you don’t mess things up yourself, even if that means having to give up a certain amount of flexibility. Which includes relinking things willy-nilly. Whether they’re the correct files or not.
Bottom line, I’d say the only thing anyone is in fact missing here is the option to specifically relink proxy files and not just the original/optimized. Which I’m not actually sure makes a lot of sense, assuming you’re “playing by the (simple) rules”. So it’s not problem with the media management per se imho, just a missing feature for an exception to those rules. But if it’s something essential for your everyday workflow, you’d need to hit the feedback page.
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No Adam, You are not unclear. I think the one point that Robin didn’t get is that the proxy files don’t stay connected when any part of the file path changes name – so when you have BIGDRIVE/MyProjectFolder/Media/Final Cut Proxy Media/ at your office with the RAID, Final cut is happy and sees the proxy files, but when you copy your project and external proxy files to the portable drive, final cut automatically no longer sees them. Only the drive name has changed, for example, to PORTABLEDRIVE/MyProjectFolder/Media/Final Cut Proxy Media/ and that alone causes final cut to lose it’s connection to the proxy media. That is what Robin is missing. It seems that Robin was assuming that the connection remained intact, so I can understand the confusion in that case.
I have nearly the SAME issue! In my case, my project is almost the same size as yours, and I have 4-5 editors working on the project. We cannot be on the same physical network, so each editor has a drive with a copy of the original media, library and proxy media. Like you say, the Library file this way is ~20MB – very manageable compared to ~100GB per Library with the proxy media stored inside which is much much much less convenient to manage making quick copies back and forth.
I really like the suggestion to name the portable drive the same as the main drive. I think I will try that work around for now.
You know, I have this issue with Logic Pro as well. Any time I back up or move a Logic file, I have to reconnect media. It’s not too uncommon to see two different audio files with the same name connected to the same project. That causes headaches. I wish these editing files would have a relative file path setting which would allow you to designate a main project folder below which ALL the files would ALWAYS remain the same RELATIVE to each other allowing complete portability.
Cheers
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[Tim Dutton] ” I think the one point that Robin didn’t get is that the proxy files don’t stay connected when any part of the file path changes name”
Probably because I can’t concur. Simply copying the library works just fine here. Especially if you copy it from within FCP, which you should anyway, there’s no reason why it shouldn’t.
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I’m having the same problem. Though I’m not working with as much media. This tutorial explained how to manage my library and generate proxies on my laptops hard drive while keeping original and optimized files on an external drive.
https://provideocoalition.com/mspencer/video/moving-proxy-media-in-final-cut-pro-x
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I guess the issue here is how complex is the project – how much media do you have and is that media still growing and how many editors are working on that same media.
With a (relatively) small project, with all the media available, then your method of keeping all the proxies in the Library works fine. With a larger project, shared between more than one editor, and in which additional footage is coming in on a weekly basis, then the option to store proxies externally is very welcome.
You end up both with a small ‘trimmed’ Library which is easy to share with other editors and assistants over a network (copying hundreds of GBs is not an option) and an external proxy folder which can grow as more footage is imported into the master Library.
Up until 10.1.2 this worked by using a remote disk with the same name as the main storage disk and then updating the proxies on the remote disk as they came in. The updated remote Library would then be ‘fooled’ into thinking nothing had changed and relink correctly with the proxies. For some reason this no longer appears to work in 10.1.3. (anyone else noticed this???)
Proxy workflow has been greatly improved in recent updates, now all that’s needed is a way to directly relink proxies in the same way as original media – and a whole new range of extended workflows would be supported.
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