[Abbi Jutkowitz]

Update from original poster of this thread about being out of sync:

After upping my RAM from 6 gigs to 12 and replacing the Apple RAID card, I am now running in sync. After replacing the RAM I was still out of sync so the RAID card replacement is probably what fixed it, but the extra RAM can’t hurt, right?

I read elsewhere on the forums that Apple’s RAID card is not great, but we went with it because we needed to use internal RAIDs because of the cost savings for the feature I’m on. Are there other RAID cards that can be used in a Mac Pro that people can suggest for posterity?

thanks,
abbi

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

I totally agree with you but I’ve had to pick my battles and, as I mentioned,

“However, when they sync with FCP I get 24 bit files–we did a test. Both have the same external display playback sync issue so I don’t think that’s the root of the problem.”

I did get a few deliveries with 24bit audio and the problems are the same.

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

Thanks for sticking with me, Gary!

My audio is originally being recorded on Deva and Fostex (switched in the middle of the shoot) as polyphonic bwfs at 24 bit 48k. My video is being recorded on RED 4.5k RAW files 23.98fps.

A lab transcodes and syncs for me with RedRocket and RedCine–I dont know too many details of their process other than what they give back to me is QTs that are Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) 1920 x 1080 32 bit 48k. They are 32 bit instead of 24 bit for some unknown reason that has to do with syncing outside of FCP. However, when they sync with FCP I get 24 bit files–we did a test. Both have the same external display playback sync issue so I don’t think that’s the root of the problem. Audio playback is fine, it’s only picture that lags.

My tech specs are:
Mac Pro 2×2.26 GHz Quad Core Intel Xeon
RAM is 6gb 1066 MHz DDR3
OS 10.6.2
Kona LHi driver 7.5.1 with breakout box
FCP 7.0.2 working with ProRes 422 (Proxy) footage
Footage is on Internal RAID, 3 x 2TB drives 7200rpm, setup as RAID 5 with Apple Hardware RAID controller. (all three drives are the same, Hitachi HDS722020ALA330)
ATI Radeon HD 4870 Graphics Card
2 Samsung 23″ LCD monitor for Browser left, Viewer/Canvas/Timeline right
1 Panasonic 42″ TC-P42S1 1080p TV for external display for viewing. Hooked up via Kona LHi BOB with HDMI, also have tried it hooked up component.
Audio plays out via analog XLR running from Kona BOB to a Mackie 12 channel mixer

Problem is display to display sync, picture only. Picture is sync to audio, no problems there. Canvas and Viewer playback in sync. When I bypass the Kona card and playback with external display, that is in sync too. (Which made me think it was the Kona card but I’ve gotten a new one and tried it in slots 2 and 3 with the same results.)

I am not trying to playback 48fps material, I was trying to explain that when I playback my 23.98 footage at what I assume is about 48fps by hitting the L/Forward key twice the display to display NG sync is even more apparent. (The lag is there at regular playback too, higher speed just makes it more obvious.) The more times I hit L/the faster I play, the more the picture on the monitor lags in relation to the Canvas which always stays in sync.

The reason I am using the Kona in the first place is that we wanted to be able to have 3 displays (as described above in the setup specs) AND to be able to crash record out to a DVD recorder. Panasonic DMR-EZ28 DVD Recorder.

I’d love to get this setup working but at this point we’re also thinking of abandoning the plasma & the DVD Recorder, just getting two 30″ computer monitors and using desktop display. Even though we don’t really want to lose the crash record capability.
THANK YOU!
Abbi

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

An update, but I’m still having sync playback issues. I tested playing my psf sequence over HD-SDI to a pro monitor. And I am still having a sync problem. Specifically it is apparent when I play 48 fps, I can see clearly that the monitor picture is lagging behind. I was surprised by this, so I’m returning to ask for help again.

I ran a hardware test on my Mac Pro and everything came back fine. Now I’m running RAID Utility verification. Even when I play media off the boot drive I have the sync playback issue so I am really truly stumped.

Thanks in advance for any ideas…
Abbi

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

“Pick one forum to post this stuff in, I am not going to answer here and in the Kona forum.”

I posted in Kona on the 26th and only got one response that was unfortunately not helpful. I thought my problem was more FCP/Settings and Setup based so reposted here with a clarified question. I don’t see any response from you in the Kona forum, but I thank you very much for your responses here. You mention to read “the post” in the Kona forum, but I’m not sure which one you’re referring to. did you mean this one?
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/193/875880
i read a bunch of psf posts but none were making me understand the issue fully; that’s why i posted, to learn more.

“Incorrect- where did you ever get that Idea from? – HDSDI is Digital Component- 3 Wire on your display is the analog version of that same signal – there should be NO difference in picture quality from the Kona card.”

I guess I didn’t realize the analog version of something digital would be as good looking as HDMI but of course it can be. Only my ignorance showing, no shame in that. Thanks for the corrected info.

“Have you called AJA’s tech support?”
I called them first thing, told them my setup with FCP settings, In and Outs, etc., and they did not pick up on the problem. they told me to use the 1080i 29.97 setting to get video to the monitor, but when i do that the picture does not stay in sync. that’s why i’m trying to get the psf setting to work.

I’m new to posting to the cow’s forums and FCP and nitty gritty technical info, but not to searching forums, troubleshooting, or cutting. Thanks for your patience.
abbi

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

Thanks for the responses. A few further questions if you don’t mind…

“SInce that is the default for 1080 HD delivery, any good looking display will handle
the content.”

Any suggestions on displays? Currently I’m using the Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p TV

“Its the default signal for 1080 HD, Its not your TV.”

So if psf is the default for 1080 HD, then in this case, in wanting to display that image on my plasma via HDMI the problem is my TV, or at least how I’m connecting to the TV, right? I have sequence settings match my clips as AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy). But when I choose psf for the playback setting I get no image on the monitor. When I choose a 1080p or 1080i setting I get an image but it does not keep sync.

“Your display can handle either type of signal and my guess is that you will not be able to look at the 1080p signal over the Component connections- it will have to be PsF.”

Other than component not looking as good as HDMI, this is okay and what I want since my footage is psf right? unless i want to get another monitor with HD-SDI hookup?

Further specs:
Mac Pro 2×2.26 GHz Quad Core Intel Xeon
RAM is 6gb 1066 MHz DDR3
OS 10.6.2
Kona LHi driver 7.5.1 with breakout box
FCP 7.0.2 working with ProRes 422 (Proxy) footage
Panasonic DMR-EZ28 DVD Recorder

thanks so much,
abbi

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

Hello,

I’m still having sync issues with my plasma monitor after replacing the Kona LHi card, so I thought I’d try posting again with some more info…if anyone has any ideas please let me know!

In order to not get the FCP message that says my sequence is not matching my clips, I have to use the AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 setting. But, I can’t get an image on the plasma unless I playback as
1080p or 1080i. This is weird that they dont match, right? And I always thought p = psf, ie progressive is by its nature segmented frames, isnt it?

Here’s my situation in more detail:

Playback to Editor’s plasma monitor is and has always been out of sync My system, which is just an iMac, is fine. Editor’s FCP Canvas monitor is fine. Every manual everywhere says that CLIP settings have to match SEQUENCE settings which have to match PLAYBACK settings. BUT, the plasma has never displayed an image when FCP Playback setting matches the Sequence setting, I only get an image at different playback settings, and they are out of sync.

Sequence setting to match the clips:
AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 Apple
ProRes 422 (Proxy)

Playback setting info:
AJA Kona LHi 1080psf 23.98 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) – no image, nothing on plasma, even though this matches seq setting

AJA Kona LHi 1080p 23.98 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) – playback drifts out by picture to lagging behind. if I pause the timeline, plasma monitor image “catches up” then starts in sync, then drifts out again.

AJA Kona LHi 1080i 29.97 Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy) – playback seems in sync but words look rubbery, like the picture is being pulled up to 29.97 but the sound is not maybe?

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

Would that I could do an edit to tape and test it that way but I have no deck with TC and deck control. I’m getting dailies from RED already sunk and taken care of at a lab (“lab”) so no need for digitizing or a deck yet. Eventually we’ll make HDCAMs but we’re not there yet. Just DVDs so far.

I’m getting a new Kona card, will let you know if it was a hardware thing or what once we get to the bottom of it.

abbi

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

Wow, I never knew that option was there. Fantastic! Thanks for the tip.
What do people who don’t have Kona cards do, though? If you’re just laying off via firewire you wouldn’t need a Kona card–layoff via firewire still? How do people handle burn-in in that case?

thanks,
abbi

[Abbi Jutkowitz]

This is the only post I could find on the “back tab” function so I’m responding even though the thread is quite old.

I’m using FCP 7 and can not get back tab to work. I’ve tried mapping it to various keys, trashing/making new settings, nothing works. Back tab should allow me to move backwards in data entry columns in bins, right? Does this work for anyone?

Thanks,
Abbi