[Aaronowen]

Finally some specific info! Thanks so much!! I will be testing this over the weekend and will post the results…

cheers mate
ao

[Aaronowen]

https://forums.creativecow.net/readthread/120/736489/736489?&archive=T
Thanks for the link Jeremy; I read an interesting post from Rune in that thread that said:

[ Walter Biscardi ] The 1200A cannot generate the 24p flags itself. I must be fed the 24p feed from the Varicam via HD-SDI for this procedure to work.

…Also, there’s an issue that FCP definitely does not generate the flags, and it’s a huge bug in everything.

–rune

I would really like Steve Mahrer to weigh in here because it really seems like this whole doesn’t currently work like it should when it comes to the finishing process. Does anybody know Steve?

This whole format is only going to get more important to professional post production workflows because all too often the client hires the production company to shoot a project and they are shooting in this format; which is fine….we just need to know the truth when it comes to the metadata encoding on output from the popular systems.

[Aaronowen]

I’d say that re-loading is going to be your best bet because the transcode will happen in realtime. But I’d say that if you want to transcode your files without re-loading (which will definately take much longer than realtime) then you should run your HDV files through after effects…it won’t mess with your frame size and you’ll get the codec and framerate you need. Then you can capture the digibeta stuff as you like…

[Aaronowen]

[Eli Mavros] “1. Since you are using a Decklink Card, if you layoff your sequence to tape via SDI, could you not choose to insert a standard 3:2, which I am sure Smoke could recognize and extract quite easily?”
The problem here is that most of the “standard” 3:2 removal tools are geared toward removing fields out of the jitter frames of material running at 29.97fps. 720p runs at a true 59.94 progressive framerate which means that instead of inserting fields to get to 30fps you duplicate full frames in a 3:2 cadence. The normal NTSC pulldown removal tools can’t deal with this. This is what happens currently when I output via firewire (or SDI for that matter); the material ends up on the tape running at 59.94 with pulldown that’s not easily removed. We could write a tool to be able to handle this which Matt mentioned in an earlier post; but we don’t think we should have to.

[Eli Mavros] “…or you could export an uncompressed image sequence (which I’m sure it can read)…though the file would be pretty huge”

In thinking about workarounds for this lil issue, using an image sequence is what we came up with to be able to have an offline reference. The smoke’s support of quicktime isn’t very good and doesn’t include the DVCProHD codec…

[Eli Mavros] “…there is no way that you are going to be able to lay down a 23.98 onto a DVCPROHD tape without adding some sort of a pulldown.”

This is a given; I’m just wanting a way to lay down an edited master or an offline reference to the tape and be able to re-load it at its correct native framerate…this is why I refer to the format as a “fake format”.

I’ve seen some posts in this thread that mention D5 running at 23.98. Is this 720p? Does anyone know how D5 stores 720p @ 23.98? Does it have the same pulldown? What sync signal does the deck require when operating in this mode?

-ao

[Aaronowen]

[gary adcock] “you have never said what app versions you are running- and this is not something that can be done in previous versions of FCP or Smoke.”

I’m running FCP 5.1.2 and Autodesk Smoke 2007.

[gary adcock] “FCP 5.1 2 has the ability to properly flag 720p 23.98 DVCPROHD content back out over FW, IF the deck is set properly to accept the user bits and ancillary info.”

Where in FCP and/or what deck setting accomplishes this task? The I can’t seem to find the info in the manual for the deck and I’m not sure where the option would be in FCP. There is a user bit that I can preset; bit it seems to be an aux TC track which is a place that can handle TOD code or some other pertinent time data such as sound TC or something. When you say ancillary info, where is this recorded?

[gary adcock] “The current versions of Cinema Tools is quite capable of handling a reverse telecine on this material however. “

Can you explain a bit more on this?

[Aaronowen]

[walter biscardi] “From my understanding, you would need to master directly to an HDCAM or D5 deck in the 23.98 format to stay in that frame rate. I don’t believe FCP can lay back a true 23.98 timeline to a DVCPro HD deck and have that deck record the flagged frames for extraction later.”
If you were to master to either D5 or HDCAM, you would be either using the real 720p running at 59.94 with advanced pulldown or uprezing to 1080 running at 23.98psf. Neither are too attractive becuase with the 1080 option you are blowing up the picture and with the 720p@59.94 option you are inserting a pulldown cadence that’s not easily removed.

-AO

[Aaronowen]

[gary adcock] “Duh. with your offline you have removed the metadata, how can you change formats and do an offline and expect to maintain the data’s integrity.”
I’m not changing formats; I input the clips over firewire into FCP, cut my offline and then output to the same DVCPro HD tape via firewire. FCP did output the pulldown correctly, but did so without the metadata. I’m wondering if FCP has the ability to output the metadata and how this is done.

[gary adcock] “you do not have the ability to remove the redundant frames? since when?
You have any number of ways to output the files to achieve the 23.98. SInce you do not say how you outputted the “offline” back to tape, how are we supposed to understand.”
I should have been more clear when describing my tests. When I load the footage, I used firewire; when I output my offline for reference, I used firewire to goto DVCProHD 720p 23.98 tapes. What I meant by not being able to remove the redundant frames is that when I recapture the offline- either in smoke or final cut; both systems cannot recognize how to remove the pulldown because of the lack of metadata so I’m left with a clip running at 59.94 with pulldown. Panasonic’s framerate converter cannot be used in this situation because the plugin requires the metadata to be present in order to know how to deal with the frames. This metadata was stripped off when I laid off my offline. This is why I’m asking exactly how to keep the metadata in-tact when outputting from FCP. You suggested firewire or the Kona; I wasn’t able to get firewire to work and I’m wondering why. I’m not buying a kona just for this.

All my questions are theoretical becuase I’m currently testing the workflow and am finding major issues.

[Aaronowen]

I’ve been using the AJ-HD1200a and have read in the manual that it’s a playback only deck and needs the option equipment installed to add record functionality. I would check that your deck doesn’t have something like that; panasonic also has stupid rec inhibit switches that are on the front of the deck that need to be turned off before you can record (in addition to having the tape’s rec inhibit switch in the correct position).

-aaron