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Forums Creative Community Conversations You are all amateurs….

  • You are all amateurs….

  • alban egger

    July 2, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    I am sick of this pro-talk.

    We are all amateurs. The one editor who never edited anythng less than 65mm ….ok I am generous….32mm footage step forward and float to the top as the real pro. But anyone who ever touched 5D, 7D , 2/3-inch material, hell even Red…….you are busted as an amateur, because you compromised yourself. You should never accept this digital “crap”

    seriously what’s going on these days here is ridiculous and not worthy of a forum of professionals and motivated amateurs. FcpX is barely out and is arguably the most interesting editing-software release of the year and all you can say is “but it doesn’t fit my 2007-workflow”?

    If you don’t see the gamechanging potential in FcpX (yes, potential, because I understand FcpX is far from being finished) then you probably didn’t see it in the Nikon D90 either. You know what……in that case I feel safe calling you an amateur, because you have no idea about your field of work and how quickly it evolves.

    As I said, if your life is around 32mm and nothing else, you are entitled to call yourself a pro and your workflow will be a different beast, but anyone who is editing what’s thrown at him/her will need to acknowledge the times of digital filmmaking are changing much faster than we ever imagined. 4 years ago nobody dreamt of DSLR footage, now it is flooding the net and the TV sets. And it actually looks good (especially for the price)when used and handled properly.

    I am not here to sell any product, but if you have criticism on FcpX please use it for a few days before posting ideas of the last century. If you don’t have Fcp7 and can’ t use it, stay away. If you have Fcp7 and really need a new software (?!) move on, but do so in a civilized manner. And I know many are moving on without FCP.

  • Gary Pollard

    July 2, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Agree.

    Besides,an amateur is someone who does something for love. It’s always been strange when people use it as an insult.

    Anyone who doesn’t love it should get the **** out.

    As for “Pros”, there are a myriad kinds of pro, and this program works for some and not others.

    To define only “me, me, me” as a pro is something I’ve seen since the “pros” were never going to use DV, never going to use the EOS 5D for serious photography, never going to use DSLRs for filmmaking, oh, and never going to use the early Final Cut Pro for “Pro” use.

  • David Roth Weiss

    July 3, 2011 at 12:02 am

    [alban egger] “I am sick of this pro-talk.”

    Then go back to whatever those other forums are that you were spending your time at before you waded in here insulting everyone and their mothers.

    Anyway, you Austrian tyrants are always trying to take over the free world, and the last thing we need around here is more wiener-schnitzel, there’s enough of that to go around here as it stands.

    So, go back to your your beergarten and swill down some more of that superb Austrian brew that brought you out of the shadows on this wonderful summer evening (seriously, I do love your beer and your women).

    And, just in case you have no sense of humor, let me add the following: :).

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist
    David Weiss Productions, Inc.
    Los Angeles
    https://www.drwfilms.com

    Don’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
    https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

    POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

    Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.

  • Scott Sheriff

    July 3, 2011 at 12:17 am

    [Gary Pollard] “To define only “me, me, me” as a pro is something I’ve seen since the “pros” were never going to use DV, never going to use the EOS 5D for serious photography, never going to use DSLRs for filmmaking, oh, and never going to use the early Final Cut Pro for “Pro” use.”

    Funny you would mention that about Final Cut. Shane Ross busted his ass for years trying to get people in LA to accept FCP as suitable for professional use. This was not an easy thing to accomplish, and then this debacle happens, and now we are back to square one.
    I guess you don’t realize that there is a chain of command on any gig, and the editor is often far from in charge. Right, or wrong it often doesn’t matter what you think, there are industry standards for every aspect of production. It doesn’t matter to the EP if a bunch of hipsters think a 5D is acceptable to shoot a film, or show with because you are not the guys writing the checks, he is. If the above the line guys think something is below professional standards, then it is.
    And behind the scenes, these people are sitting around laughing at all this DIY guerrilla film stuff posted on the web. I get ten emails a day where someone finds a picture of a homemade skateboard dolly, or a 5D with 5 grand worth of Red Rock, or Zacuto stuff hung on it and they are mocking it.
    These guys are the folks with the checkbook, and they read whats posted here, and on other forums and have a big input as to whats professional, and whats not. Things can change, but it takes time because there are plenty of standards and practices that are proven to work over that last century the OP was mocking. And the people that are risking their cash, generally want to minimize the risk by going with what is proven.

    Scott Sheriff
    Director
    https://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

    “If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.” —Red Adair

    Where were you on 6/21?

  • David Roth Weiss

    July 3, 2011 at 12:27 am

    [Gary Pollard] “Besides,an amateur is someone who does something for love.”

    You’re mixing metaphors now Gary – this isn’t golf; some of us actually conduct business from time you know.

    And, since no one bothered to respond when I mentioned it earlier this week, at the risk of further silence from those who almost never acknowledge salient counterpoint, I will repeat myself: “The non-pros who are clearly Apple’s targets, don’t aspire to remain as permanent “Youtubers” all their lives. That’s the mistake Apple has made.

    Without the tools to learn and to collaborate and to work and to exchange like professionals do (now and in the past), Youtubers will remain Youtubers.”

    David Roth Weiss
    Director/Editor/Colorist
    David Weiss Productions, Inc.
    Los Angeles
    https://www.drwfilms.com

    Don’t miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
    https://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

    POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

    Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.

  • Gary Pollard

    July 3, 2011 at 12:49 am

    [David Roth Weiss] “Without the tools to learn and to collaborate and to work and to exchange like professionals do (now and in the past), Youtubers will remain Youtubers.””

    You are assuming after all of two weeks that those tools will never exist. Or that an entirely new subset of them will not grow up. Whatever else it is, this is a smaller leap than from film to video, or from linear to non-linear. I used to shoot on, and edit, 16mm sepmag. I used to edit 2″ ampex tapes of studio stuff where you’d have to try and manually roll in sync to make an edit.

    There’ve been bigger changes than this that have changed the industry. And the careers of every single person on this forum would not exist without them.

    I haven’t come to a final determination on FCP X yet, but I am sure it will sink or swim without me. I am 100% sure those Youtubers will find their upgrade path. I am just not ready to strangle the baby at birth. Some of the things FCP X does are a lot better than the way previous iterations have done them. Too many people confuse familiarity (often VERY hard-earned) with functionality, as with the “Apple/Windows is just more instinctive” discussion.

    ————-

    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”

  • Gary Pollard

    July 3, 2011 at 12:52 am

    You celebrate the inertia of mid-level industry.

    Frankly, the new Coen brothers won’t come from the ranks of those people giggling. They will come from Youtube and the subculture. And the upgrade paths will always be there.

    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”

  • Chris Kenny

    July 3, 2011 at 12:58 am

    [Scott Sheriff] “Shane Ross busted his ass for years trying to get people in LA to accept FCP as suitable for professional use. This was not an easy thing to accomplish, and then this debacle happens, and now we are back to square one.”

    “Square one” was “Noting is acceptable except for Avid”. We’re not back to that. The industry is more open to alternatives now. Adobe will probably benefit more than Avid from short-term issues with FCP X, and once those issues have passed FCP X will probably have little trouble establishing itself.


    Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

    You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.

  • Miriam Lefkowitz

    July 3, 2011 at 1:07 am

    Come on. We are not in middle school here. Even if someone is trolling there is no need to make this personal.

  • Chris Kenny

    July 3, 2011 at 1:13 am

    [David Roth Weiss] “”The non-pros who are clearly Apple’s targets, don’t aspire to remain as permanent “Youtubers” all their lives. That’s the mistake Apple has made.

    Without the tools to learn and to collaborate and to work and to exchange like professionals do (now and in the past), Youtubers will remain Youtubers.””

    There are a couple of problems with that argument. First off, “non-pros” are not Apple’s target market with FCP X. Actual consumers effectively never buy buy $300 software. Apple’s primary target market with FCP X is the majority of the FCP user base that does not cut features or deliver material for broadcast, but is nonetheless ‘professional’ because it consists of being getting paid to edit video.

    This was also Apple’s primary target market with previous versions of FCP. The only real difference is that by FCP 7, Apple had had a chance to implement more niche functions for the broadcast/feature market. They haven’t had that chance yet with FCP X, because it’s brand new.

    Secondly, FCP got into the high-end market in the first place largely because it was adopted by the “Youtubers” of its day (back then the enabling technologies where MiniDV and Firewire), and some of them brought it along when they later moved upmarket. You’re basically arguing that the tools chosen at the high-end dictate what tools people lower down use, but in reality the big trend of the last decade (or more) has been bottom-up adoption, whether you’re talking about Final Cut Pro vs. Avid, the rise of digital cinematography, the replacement of SGI workstations with Mac/Windows machines, etc.


    Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

    You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.

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