XDCAM workflow

[Walter Biscardi]

[Curt Pair] “I would like to know how you “shot” the footage… what kind of lights, how they were set up, the camera settings, etc. “

Professional setup handled by the D.P. of Good Eats. Lighting truck, camera crew, etc… Very good crew, very good equipment.

[Curt Pair] “THEN: I’d like to know how you cut the material, and how you tried to key it out! (i.e. FCP, Avid, Premiere, After Effects, Vegas, what?) “

First started with FCP and Primate keyer with the chroma smoother. Jaggy city.

Then sent the raw shots into Color and boosted the backdrop.

Brought that back into FCP and used the Primatte Keyer again with their cleaning tool. Didn’t help much. Tried the Boris keying tools in AE, didn’t help much there either.

There were tons of artifacts on the original footage that we just could not get rid of cleanly, so I ended up rotoscoping portions of the scene to pull good keys. We had 6 different elements that had to be keyed together so this took quite some time.

[Curt Pair] “I would say 90% of keying is LIGHTING, LIGHTING, LIGHTING!”

Absolutely, that’s why you hire a really good D.P. and a good lighting crew. I found this to be a pattern with the camera. Everything shot and pulled from the cards on the EX1 and EX3 was very pixellated whenever there was a lot of information on the screen. Close-ups of people it was good. outdoor shots with lots of trees and background, the image fell apart.

This is not the only shoot where I’ve seen the artifacting. We do a news series with stringers throughout the world. Several of those stringers shoot with the EX1 and we see the same artifacting on wide shots and shots with lots of information. Doesn’t affect anything in the stories as we don’t do any keying with news stories.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Curt Pair]

Walter,

I can certainly sympathize with your situation! I honestly have “heard” a few times from others of what you are describing, but those typically ended up being operator error. Being a Producer, I know it can be upsetting when you put your project in the hands of others only to have non-satisfactory results.

I’m NOT SAYING that is the case here… but perhaps. Was the camera set up in 35Mbps (i.e. “HQ” mode)?

I’ve shot ALL KINDS of outdoor stuff for Sony to use in marketing, trade shows, etc., with NO problems what so ever. I will admit… I’m an AVID owner’s manual reader! I like to know as much about gear as I can before using it! I know most of the settings before heading into the field. If I don’t remember, I ALWAYS have a manual with me.

The bad key: It may be due to the exposure of the background. I would suggest, for ANY acquisition format, that you check with the manufacturer of YOUR keying process to find out what they “suggest” or mandate the IRE exposure levels to ensure a proper key.

Recently, I had a customer that MANDATED we set up a key at 40 IRE! I told them that was ENTIRELY TOO LOW! I even called “Ultimatte”, his keying company/software of choice! They told me they suggest 80 IRE for all of their keys! So, he was using HALF of the levels needed for the software to work correctly! As you can guess… it didn’t work! We were hired again… by the same company… this time “use 45 IRE!” I think you can guess how that came out! I was smart… at the end of the shoot, I set it up how WE would do it, according to Ultimatte’s suggestions, and they said it keyed perfectly… “Now we know…”

If you’d like, I can send you a link to some footage on my YouTube channel for you to review. Most of that EX footage was shot in Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons parks… looks amazing!

What frame rate are you shooting? I mix it up, but haven’t noticed any problems in ANY particular frame rate.

Curt

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F800/F350/PDW700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Walter Biscardi]

[Curt Pair] “Was the camera set up in 35Mbps (i.e. “HQ” mode)? “

Yep.

[Curt Pair] “What frame rate are you shooting? I mix it up, but haven’t noticed any problems in ANY particular frame rate. “

1080i/60.

All the EX-1 footage we get is 1080i/60, that’s all we request. Glad you have success with the format, that was the first and only project I’m cutting with it. For news stories it’s ok, but I wouldn’t use it for anything else. We stick with and request the Panasonic HD formats for all our primary work.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

Read my Blog!

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[Bob Pierce]

I’d like to chime in with what Curt said: from my experience, exposure it absolutely essential to a good key. Underexposure makes for a great challenge, regardless of the format or camera. If you’ve got to boost the gain in post, you are in trouble. Some may think that 80 IRE is extreme, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable. It would be a simple experiment to determine the optimal IRE exposure value for chroma key.

Bob Pierce

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 – 8GB memory – Mac OS 10.5.5 – Quicktime 7.5.5 –
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo –
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.4) – Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 –
Sony Multiformat 14″ – Panasonic 42″ Plasma –
Ikegami HLDV7 – PVW EX-1

[Curt Pair]

What I try to do BEFORE I go into the field is find out how my client will “key” footage (if we aren’t cutting the material!). I ask them what hardware/software they will be using. Then I spend about 10 minutes on the internet looking to find the answers to the “IRE” question.

Within SECONDS, I was able to find a link on the Ultimatte website that states they’d like a “1:1 ratio of foreground and background lighting for our software to work properly…” For clarification, I sent them an email… and THEY TOLD ME to use 80 IRE for best results with their software package!

I found the Imagica website in seconds (the MAKERS of Primatte… although they don’t have the IRE level suggestions in their posted “whitepapers…,” they do post an email address and phone number to contact them directly. I have done so, just to satisfy my own curiosity. I called Scott Gross on his cell phone and asked him directly… “the what levels? I have no idea… I don’t know what an IRE is! In 14 years of selling Primatte, no one has ever asked that question before! It would probably be good for me to know too! I will call the guy who wrote the program in Japan tonight and get back to you tomorrow!”

It was that easy to find out… I’m looking forward to Scott’s response!

So I recommend that procedure for ANYONE who performs chroma keying! I’ve found other “IRE” settings for different programs and software. (Keylight for example suggests “74 IRE” in their whitepapers!) It’s best if you KNOW the process all the way through the post process for your footage… Then set up accordingly!

Good luck and happy Keying!

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F800/F350/PDW700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Bob Pierce]

Thanks for your response Curt. Now that our HD field monitors all have scopes built in (or most anyway) we’re all that much more tuned in to these things in the field. How many people dragged scopes along with them in the olden days (olden days being five years ago)? With keying in particular it’s a great help.
I’ve read the documentation with Keylight and never saw the 74 IRE recommendation.
Thanks again,
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 – 8GB memory – Mac OS 10.5.5 – Quicktime 7.5.5 –
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo –
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.4) – Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 –
Sony Multiformat 14″ – Panasonic 42″ Plasma –
Ikegami HLDV7 – PVW EX-1

[Brad Steiner]

I sue zebra bars to check levels on a green screen. They are set to 70. If I shoot the green and get smooth zebras across the whole field, I’m close. Open the iris a bit and light the talent.
I’d love to have a scope in the studio, or one of the new monitors with one built in, but alas I don’t.
Some cameras can set the zebras to different levels. I suppose you could set that to whatever level you really need.

Just some ideas for those of us without the fancy smancy gear or high priced lighting guys. 😉

BrAd

Praise to the COW

BrAd Steiner
ImageWorks Media Group

[Curt Pair]

Brad is correct. “One way” of trying to chroma key is the use of Zebra stripes in the viewfinder.

In the “old days” I did that myself. HOWEVER, I couldn’t GUARANTEE my keys, the way I do now. Zebra stripes set to 70 IRE tell the user that in this “area of the picture” there is a light level of “at least” 70% IRE… that might be 76%, 80%, who knows with the stripes… It’s nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get uniform and even lighting by using that method. The right side of the picture may have stripes, and not the left side, by the time the whole viewfinder is showing stripes, you have no idea where your true IRE levels are across the frame. I know… We got “lucky” a few times and had some disasters with others.

It wasn’t until someone showed me the TRUE measuring tool for light in an electronic video camera, a wave form monitor, that my chroma key work began to stand out from the others in my market.

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT OWNING this gear? Heck, I RENTED a WFM for years! They are about $75 per day, in the SD world… a little more in the HD world. I bill that back to the client. I’m sure others do too. I tell clients that we may cost more “up front” in terms of equipment, but I GUARANTEE our keys on the first pass with minimal effort. That CAN NOT be done with out using a waveform monitor. Once clients give it a try, they are hooked! They see the benefit of the money they are paying.

By the way, the WFMs built into monitors really don’t cut it, either… they are only a reference. Remember, the “monitor” is just that, a monitor and not a measuring tool. I’ve used these types of monitors “side by side” with the real reference gear, and they just don’t compare. When performing a chroma key, you are shooting in an advanced state. This isn’t a simple interview. There are so many things that can go wrong, it’s better off to begin with the best of your ability.

I’ve actually keyed shots with Lowell lights! Not to say they aren’t “good” lights, I just generally use different instruments these days. Again, it’s more TECHNIQUE than fancy lights. If the principals are applied correctly, desirable results occur. I will only stress that a WFM makes the process not only easier, but provides a better outlook on the final result.

The bottom line is: the choice is YOURS! Do what you want. I’ve just been really fortunate with folks sharing knowledge and wanted to “pay it forward…” When adjustments were made to our process, our results were noticeably better. Thus, we became “first calls” and experts in this area. Thus, we’ve made more money. We don’t guess any longer, we KNOW!

Curt Pair
Picture This Productions
Sony ICE Team
F900/F800/F350/PDW700/EX1/EX3/D790/D600
Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD/Matrox
Phoenix, AZ

[Chadwick Chennault]

I am going to jump in on Walter’s side here. 😉

I have pulled good keys from EX1/EX3 footage… BUT… the Panasonic Footage is VERY superior when it comes to pulling easy, fast keys.

The EX footage will create a nice key, but with a lot more effort and monkeying than the Panni stuff requires. I find that chroma blur is an absolute requirement for EX footage.

[Bob Cole]

[Curt Pair] ” I just generally use different instruments these days. Again, it’s more TECHNIQUE than fancy lights. “

Great advice about the wave form monitor. Like others, I also use the zebras, which will work as long as you know you’re on the edge. But I will take my copy of Adobe OnLocation with me on the next green screen shoot and try that.

I tend not to worry about uniformity across the entire screen; I just use a garbage matte for the edges anyway. Also, I tried turning an HDV (Sony Z1) on its side for a vertical subject to increase the image size/pixel count for the keying — worked great.

But I’d like to know more about your “TECHNIQUE” for lighting. (I use two Mole Nooklites with barndoors, which are very effective, if there is enough space to back them off. Tight spaces have been a challenge to create a large even key, but as I said above, I generally am lighting only for the area behind the subject.)

Thanks for the informative post.

Bob C