“Wunderbaum” – Grading techniques

[Dermot Shane]

For me (and i should note again – I don’t use Resolve yet) with the tool set i use today, the nodes are an entry point to a great paint system, some 3D tools, and plugs from GenArts and Foundry.. layered timelines get pretty messy with a ton-0-stuff on them… and a ton-0-stuff is the look that makes DP’s & producer’s happy.

Also i use a pen & tablet rather than a control surface, so playing with the nodes is fairly easy / intuitive with my set-up

Lack of plugs, 3D & paint in Resolve is drag for sure when you are used to haveing them at your finger tips.. but with the rise of folks doing pre-grades in Resolve on Mac, it seems i need to get one up and running to appease my clents… i’m looking, think, evaluating.. thinking i really should have the Linux version, figureing out how to see an ROI.. i digress

Nocoda, Scratch, Baselight, Luster are not driven by my clients… Resolve is…

The upcoming IBC will probaly see some more tools that are tightly intergrated between finishing / VFX / color… what Cyborg2K was pointing the way to a decade ago

And what i hope Resolve becomes for folks like me who work mainly on indie features

d

[Jose Lomeña]

Hi jake,
Do you work with mattes?, or hdr?

I like the idea of nodes + layers, but if i must decide i prefer nodes. Its more intuitive for me. I only need a text box under the nodes number, like in the power grades or other app like shake. The name is important in a node tree. With shake is very easy to Move the position of one node. You can use groups of nodes (scripts) that make easy to see the tree, etc… I think that resolve can make some improvements in nodes mangement, but i like a lot what we have now.

Saludos,

Jose.

[Jake Blackstone]

Mike.
No, I didn’t confuse you with anyone, as your post was directed at me, as is this one. I really do not feel like spending time looking for your post on the RedUser. But the fact remains, that you were dead set against color wheels on a Resolve and you had used Baselight ( the system you used on daily basis) as an example of another grading platform being used successfully with sliding controls. It is clear, that you find present Resolve perfectly usable, as many traditional users of Davinci do. It is not my intent to change your mind, as you often come across as a person very much set in you ways. Nevertheless, Introduction of color wheels is a clear indication, that BM is intent on improving the interface and a vindication of my questioning of present state of the interface. Said that, judging from the name of this tread, I suspect that there is great deal of happy Resolve users, which is totally understandable. I do not post here as a prank or as a troll. From my personal experience I see a great deal of inefficiency in a present Resolve interface. Having some experience on other grading platforms, I feel, that Resolve and it’s users could greatly benefit from rethinking of the interface paradigm. Resolve quickly running out of a real estate with tabs and bringing new tools, like log grading, doesn’t bode well for the future. How many more tabs could we have? While using Lustre, Baselight or Nucoda, I’m constantly mindful of different design philosophies of those platforms and change the way I operate them. I find every one of those have great deal to offer, as well as negatives, as no system is perfect. I can’t offer the same assessment on Resolve. I feel, that there is general lack of unifying design philosophy, that is conducive to the development of muscle memory. I realize, that MC Color or Wave is a part of a problem, but even with DV panel,” -,+ ripple value” don’t quite rises to the level of simplicity and sophistication of the three above mentioned systems.
I also post, because I’m hoping to engage users, like you, in genuine discussion on a relative use of different systems, as I suspect there are some aspects of Resolve, that I’d probably missed. There is no shame in admitting shortcomings, but all I see, so far, are users, that are enamored with every aspect of Resolve. Well, I’m not…

[Jake Blackstone]

Mattes? Sure, it’s easy. HDR? I know what is HDR, but not sure what is the context of your question. But Nucoda supports Open EXR, so it’s not a problem. So is HDRx…
As far as nodes go, I don’t care if it’s nodes or layers. I was pretty clear on that point already and I’m not going to do it again. If BM comes up with some way to name nodes and may be a pop up with the content of the node, then it’s a good start. I’d like to see more suggestions on the subject, instead of “I like nodes, leave them alone”. Peter and Rohit are seeing this and users need to use the opportunity to help improve Resolve’s interface. Criticism of certain aspects of Resolve doesn’t mean disloyalty:-)

[Jake Blackstone]

Jack.
Of coarse you can do pretty much everything with Resolve, that you could do with Nucoda or Baselight. Heck you can make the same claim with Color, given enough time. It’s the speed and creative freedom, that is at stake. Having clients sitting beside you and being able to accommodate any of their wishes, immediately, is what will get them to come back again and again. I use FilmMaster because I love it, not because I have to. I can’t make the same statement about Resolve…

[Mike Most]

>> I really do not feel like spending time looking for your post on the RedUser. But the fact remains, that >>you were dead set against color wheels on a Resolve and you had used Baselight ( the system you used >>on daily basis) as an example of another grading platform being used successfully with sliding controls.

It’s not a “fact” because I never said anything of the sort. And you know as well as I do that Baselight does not use “sliding controls,” in fact, it has color wheels that can be switched to sliders, although frankly, I don’t really use either except for occasional feedback. So if you want to keep claiming I said such things, you’re going to need to find that because as far as I’m concerned I never did. Frankly, it’s just not something I feel all that strongly about.

>>It is not my intent to change your mind, as you often come across as a person very much set in you >>ways.

We have never met, but I’ve rarely run across someone who has such an inaccurate view of who I am and how I think. However, you’re entitled to your opinion.

>>I feel, that Resolve and it’s users could greatly benefit from rethinking of the interface paradigm. >>Resolve quickly running out of a real estate with tabs and bringing new tools, like log grading, >>doesn’t bode well for the future. How many more tabs could we have?

There is a lot less interaction with tabs if you have the DaVinci panels, which the interface was basically designed to be used with, even prior to Blackmagic’s purchase of the company. While it is true that Blackmagic through their pricing policies has now repositioned Resolve to also appeal to a much more price sensitive market, and thus a lot more users who are going to be interacting with the program through the screen display rather than a dedicated panel, the design philosophy is based on what it’s based on. If they want to change that, fine. But you seem to be implying that it’s simply bad design, and I would say that it’s a legacy design that was never meant to be used the way it’s now being used by many of their newer customers. Perhaps it should be re-thought a bit based on the new user base. Perhaps they will. Perhaps not.

>>Nevertheless, Introduction of color wheels is a clear indication, that BM is intent on improving the >>interface and a vindication of my questioning of present state of the interface.

You seem to want to take some kind of personal credit for this. I would guess that it was done because of a number of customer requests, probably from some customers with a number of systems, because that’s usually how features get added to programs. Personal “vindication”? Cmon, Jake, get over yourself at least a little bit.

>>There is no shame in admitting shortcomings, but all I see, so far, are users, that are enamored with >>every aspect of Resolve. Well, I’m not…

Neither am I. I like a lot of things about it, but I find fault with a lot of things as well. No log based controls (probably the single biggest one). A multitrack timeline that doesn’t allow combining multiple timelines or tracks from other timelines, as well as not allowing conforming into a specific targeted track. No simple way to copy or paste only one node. No ability to display multiple windows for conforming or comparing on the video output. No way to play the conformed timeline against the offline on the output video (stills only). No ability to automatically replicate transforms (i.e., blowups and repositions, or even flips and flops) from either Final Cut XML’s or Avid AAFs. Additional node necessary to do an inside and outside correction at the same time. Some of these things will likely be addressed, some are inherent in the program’s philosophy and design. All are annoying. The users you mention who are “enamored” with it are likely those who have never used anything else other than perhaps Apple Color and editing programs. They are not Baselight, Lustre, Film Master, or Pablo guys, and are as a group probably a lot less experienced than you, me, or a lot of people both of us know. From their perspective, Resolve is something that is far beyond anything they thought they would ever have, especially at what is considered by professionals to be a ridiculous price point.

[Dermot Shane]

Here’s a slice of real world context, and what Resolve might do better..

I reviewed a film with producer’s, the ONLY comment on all five reels was that the animation on the head title was getting lost once the shot was graded to work in context….

Fortunatly the glows were created in GenArt’s Monsters, and fotuntatly i can open up monsters settings created in DF in my machine, answer was to import the script, adjust the element over top of the clean/textless, cut back into timeline and render the shot.. bingo we were all on the beach in 15 min

being able to use Foundry & GenArts plugs would be a huge good thing, as would being able to use the 3D trackers in 3D space, most useful for sky replacements, and that’s something we do alot of with digital camera’s. 3D trackers are great, but at the end of the day you can only use them inside a 2D enviroment with the current resolve, and you can’t use lights on them

Adding grid warps, lighting and textures also helps in finishing/gradeing.. and needs a 3D workspace as well… closer to Pablo / Mystika / Smoke(on Linux) / DS / dear departed Cyborg2K in terms of world view…

I know Resolve’s base is a single purpose tool for the specialist, and i know my world view is that of a generalist… but most toolsets do seem to be inching towards the generalist.. do you think Resolve is well advised to lead or closely follow, but not ignore this? I do.. i would like it to be at least close to my current tools, with better gradeing than they offer.

As it is i likely will get one due to the amount of indies, editors, DP, and director’s that are already using the 1K version or free version to pre-grade… the question i have to still answer is do i go for the Linux that seems to suit my needs best, but i see as quite limited tool.. or get the Mac version for minimal outlay and get the show through Resolve quickly, use it as a conform tool with CDL only – and then into tools i can really work with?

So at the end of the day, having nodes on offer is a useful tool for me, haveing them fully functional is even better, and might be a tool i could base my workflow around in the future.

d

[Jake Blackstone]

As I said, you were arguing against any need for change in the interface and championing a present state. See for yourself. Yes, the Baselight statement is there too…
https://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?57525-Baselight-color-grading-plugin-for-finalcut-pro-quot-seriously-quot&p=760475&viewfull=1#post760475
Of coarse, it would be silly of me to take a personal credit for introduction of color wheel. See, the idea of these conversations, is to convey my hopes and desires to the powers in charge and hope I can make a compelling enough case for a need to change. All I’m saying is one my ideas, so far, were deemed good enough to be on the side of change and yours weren’t…
You keep bringing up the point, that Resolve was designed to work mostly with the DV panel and that is true. What is also true is the overwhelming majority users of Resolve and participants of this blog have no intention to purchase $30k panel, ever. So, this argument, that somehow it’s fault of the users, that do not have a full featured panel is disingenuous. It’s a fact, that right now, those users have to resort to using various hardware add ons (G13, Shuttle Pro, etc), in addition to Wave and MC Color panels, just to be able to grade.

[Mike Most]

Jake, you really need to stop putting words in my mouth and attaching your own personal interpretations to everything I say. I re-read that entire thread and the only thing I did was try to explain why the Resolve interface was as it was. Your post that prompted my response basically stated that the interface sucked, that nodes were useless, and that it should all be changed to be what some other program(s) are. I pointed out that the design was a legacy design that worked pretty well for those who the design was aimed at, which until Blackmagic completely repositioned the product was professional colorists, largely in facilities, and largely using DaVinci’s control panels. I didn’t “argue” or “champion” anything. I basically said that change is fine, but is was what it was for some good reasons.

I don’t know why you take anything I say as a personal challenge. I don’t like personal challenges, and I don’t try to create them. I usually try to add some perspective when I think there isn’t any, which these days is sometimes necessary because there are a lot of new, younger users of this stuff who have no clue as to where any of this came from, and therefore no perspective other than things like Final Cut Pro and Apple Color. Sometimes having that perspective gives one a new outlook. Sometimes not. But I don’t issue challenges, and I wish you would do the same.

[Gabriele Turchi]

hi sascha ,

what is the node :magenta filter ” about ?

thanks!

g

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