Workflow: Canon 7D to DVD Pal + DVD NTSC + Internet

[Shane Ross]

[Guillaue Chadaillac] “1) Does it make sense to have such a High Res (1080p) from the start if it is going to end up on a DVD anyway?”

Yes. Why did TV shows shoot on film if they are only going to end up on TV…back in the days of SD? Because it looks better.

[Guillaue Chadaillac] “2) What about the frame rate of the shooting? I have heard here and there that 24p is recommended. But this means at least 2 conversions. 1 to PAL and 1 to NTSC whereas if I shoot directly in 30p I’ll Just have 1 conversion to do (i.e. to PAL). “

You don’t need to convert 24fps to NTSC for DVDs…DVDs can be 24fps. What about all those hollywood films on DVD? Those are 24fps DVDs. And conforming 24fps to 25fps is a lot easier than 30fps to 25fps.

[Guillaue Chadaillac] “3)I will be using Final Cut Pro. I know That I will have to convert it to Pro Res in order to edit in FCP.
Which pros Res should I use? 422HQ, 422LT, 422 Proxy?”

The target is DVD and web, right? Then ProRes LT. ProRes 422 and HQ are higher end formats for going out to tape.

[Guillaue Chadaillac] “4)Does it make sense to use proxies in FCP in order to come back to the original files h264 files or export from Pro Res is good enough?”

Not really, no. Just import as ProRes LT. Proxy, or offline editing is really meant for projects with A LOT of footage that will eventually want to capture at ProRes 422, or HQ, for final online. Meant to conserve space. You don’t really need that with LT and for tutorials. I’m talking HUNDREDS of hours of footage.

[Guillaue Chadaillac] “When does the big conversion (in terms of frame rates and pixels)to all my different output formats occur? between FCP and DVD SP or after DVD SP?”

When you use COMPRESSOR to convert for DVD.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Ben Holmes]

Just to add (speaking from PAL land) that the majority of PAL DVD players can play 24p disks, either outputting that correctly via component, or doing their own framerate conversion for composite output. It’s a while since I made a 25p version for a client. But then, it’s a while since I was asked for a DVD. This allows Hollywood to stop making separate versions for PAL-land, as most displays support it. The last disk I made was for Blu-Ray and DVD, and all encodes for all regions were 24p – that was a couple of years ago.

It doesn’t mean the region encoding is not in effect!

Always test these things yourself, and check the specs.

Edit Out Ltd
—————————-
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

https://www.blackmagic-design.com/casestudies/detail.asp?case=therydercup

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Thank you so much Misters for the prompt answers!

which of course… leads to other questions… 🙂

As a matter of fact, I was reading posts stating that 24fps can be burnt to DVDs and that the DVD player will be fooled by pulldown flags and do the pulldown itself… fair enough. That is good news for me!

1) Will this trick on NTSC DVD player work with a 25fps encoded video. Because if I shoot and edit in 25fps (instead of 24p) , it will spare me the 24p to 25p conversion in order to convert my video to PAL. I guess I just do not see the point (maybe disk space) of shooting 24p against 25p…

2) Also, can you confirm that I will only have to go through DVD SP only ONCE. Let me explain:

I do not know which resolution is compatible for both DVDs PAL and NTSC.
I would like to find the format (MPEG2 obviously, which res? which frame rate?) that will allow me to get out of FCP straight into DVD SP and that can be burnt and read by PAL and NTSC format. Is that possible?

If a conversion is compulsory, can it be done AFTER DVDSP so that I don t have to edit my dvd twice and thereby maintain a single line of workflow from my camera down to the output of DVD SP?

3) The last but not the least… and I guess I should have mentioned that before… I CANNOT afford time stretching or any kind of tweaking on the audio as the content of my tutorial is about… audio itself. Can you confirm that my audio will not me altered in anyway from the moment I import it in FCP down to the reading of the DVD (in both format)?

Thank you so much guys for time and valuable knowledge.
G.

[Mark Maness]

[Guillaue Chadaillac] “I do not know which resolution is compatible for both DVDs PAL and NTSC.”

One other question… Is this DVD project a wide spread release or a client disc used for corporate situations?

Also… Let’s think about this. You say that your final output will be DVD and Web. Whether, you shoot it in 1080i or 720p, they’ll both look the same when down-converted to DVD. So, I’d suggest shooting 720p24, editing in 720p24 and output from there.

With concerns to DVDs… Even in this day and age, I still get folks that cannot ready DVD-R or DVD+R discs that I create. When it comes down to it, its all on the end user’s equipment and there is no way you can plan on that. You have to plan for the majority of user base.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Thanks again guys.
It is a “almost” wide spread release… 🙂 It will be available in stores… but its not the last Shrek 3D movie…

As is said it is a tutorial video about dealing with audio on certain projects. So the Audio is of the up most importance. Video is also important but I guess some compromises will have to be made.

I only have the Canon 7D and the only resolution attached to 24p is 1920*1080. I am guessing the frame rate is more important than resolution so I ll shoot in 1080p 24p.

When I important it to FCP, would you then recommend to use Pro Res 422 LT with the frame size of 720p and the all the way to DVD SP (via MPEG2 and still at 24p)?

[Shane Ross]

[Guillaue Chadaillac] “When I important it to FCP, would you then recommend to use Pro Res 422 LT with the frame size of 720p”

No. You shot 1080p24. FCP will import that as 1080p24 ProRes LT (prores of your choice). You cannot cross convert to another HD format when you import. FCP and other converters only convert the format as it was shot, they perform no rescaling. I’d stick to 1080p.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

ok we are getting there….
From the 7D until the outpure of final cut, I stay in 1080p 24p.
them comes compressor that will perform rescaling (which one?) and change of format (Mpeg2), and keep 24p in order to import that to DVD SP.

NTSC will play that just fine because of the 3:2 pull down. My audio will not be affected.

what about PAL?

My god it is completed…
I feel like I just opened the pandora box…

[Ben Holmes]

I’d add one more thing (that I believe Shane has experience of too). Don’t use the log and transfer – use the Magic Bullet Grinder app from Red Giant software. It gives you a drag-and-drop window for transferring to the ProRes codec of your choice, and is considerably faster than L&T, as it uses all the cores on your computer – if you have 8, it encodes 8 at once. It can also make proxies with burnt in timecode, although I don’t think that’s relevant to you.

Copy all the video files right off your camera card into a folder on your disk array. Drop into Grinder. Transcode to a seperate folder (always keep your original media – on a seperate drive etc. if possible, as these are your masters) and then drag them into FCP. I know spending money on a ‘small scope’ app is painful, but if you work with a DSLR, it’s the best $50 you’ll ever spend. Don’t even both with Compressor.

Advert over – I don’t work for Red Giant by the way, I’m a satisfied user!

So I think you have a workflow now? Nearly. I’d add audio recording workflow into this, if you’ve not done it before. Based on your project, and really for all DSLR work, you’ll want to record separate audio, right? If you do this, ensure you SLATE EVERY SHOT. If you have an iPhone or iPad there’s a great DSLR slate app that gives you take/shot info and a nice bright sync frame for every take. Trust me – saves hours syncing audio in post. Sync the audio up in FCP nice and easily – although there are software solutions that do this automatically, you’d really have to have a lot of footage to justify this IMHO – YMMV I suppose. I prefer just to keep rolling on set so I don’t have too many short takes, and less items to sync.

Edit in a 1080p24 timeline (unless you plan to shoot 720p on the camera, but with DSLRs the more resolution the better to overcome the ‘shortcomings’ generally), output a 1080p24 ProRes Quicktime (or reference file) then use Compressor to make an NTSC Mpeg2 file at 24p and AC3 audio file. Drop that into DVDSP and burn away. This master will be good for all NTSC and 90% of PAL ones – maybe all, I’m not sure. Maybe check this with a DVD Replicator to clarify before mastering.

And you’re set!

Ben

Edit Out Ltd
—————————-
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

https://www.blackmagic-design.com/casestudies/detail.asp?case=therydercup

[Shane Ross]

The only issue I have with GRINDER over Log and Transfer is that Grinder doesn’t bring in unique timecode. Each clip starts at 00:00:00:00. Whereas Log and transfer brings in time of day code. And I’m a sucker for timecode.

But Grinder is freakishly fast.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Wouaoa!!!
That is a lot of information to digest at once for me today!!!!

one last bit of question, what is the frame size of the MPEG2 file that I will import in DVD SP?

I have been a bit scared about some people saying that the movie could play 5% slower in PAL. Could someone please tell me under which exact circumstances this would occur?

Also is the 3:2 pulldown harmfull to the sound?