Workflow: 1080 60p from Panasonic HDC-TM700 camera

[Rafael Amador]

[Corey Gemme] “So is the verdict that the Panasonic tm700 does do 6op?”
Sure, why not?
But the most I read of people shooting with that camera, the less reasons I see to go through that hassle.
I only see the pint if you are going to the BIG screen and you need a good slow-motion.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Corey Gemme]

Thanks for getting back.

So just to clarify,

I’m assuming that 60p actually 60 distinct captures per second at obviously a 60th of a second or faster each?

In Gary’s last post it sounds like he now knows because of the way he was using it, he was getting i signal instead of a p signal. And that he realizes that using the camera like a regular consumer that we would actually get a true p image, and not one where every other line was doubled. Is it possible that this p image however has every other line interpolated? Or is every one of the 1080 lines actually what the image sensor saw?

I guess Gary could verify this too I he’d like to chime in

On a sleightly different topic:

I also noticed on the Japanese website it compared the Panasonic with the Sony and the Panasonic looked sharper. Perhaps it was skewed just to sell the Panasonic. Anybody know of any other side by side comparisons between the Sony HDR-CX550V and the Panisonic?

Since at the moment it seems hard to work with 6op and I may have to do 30p output anyway My interest in the Panasonic right now is that it just looked like a crisper image. But that’s maybe because the 60p setting forced a faster shutter speed than the Sony 30p example.

I’m okay with only 30p if it can give me slower shutter speeds to create a little motion blur which I actually don’t mind in a movie. I used to shoot REGULAR 8mm when I was a kid! I remember when SUPER 8mm came out and it was the big new thing.

Could I combine or blend two 60p frames into one 30p frame to get a little motion blur back?

It seems that the apparent motion blur from converting 60i to 30p would come from the two i fields being not quite lined up and that a native 30p recording would look a little more natural with just one field and a longer shutter speed. Does this sound right?

If it is, I’m assuming that if I converted from 60p to 30p by dropping every other frame that the difference is that I would have 60th of a second shutter speeds or faster and it would be more jittery than if I just shot it at 30p and had longer shutter speeds to create a little motion blur to smooth things out.

One last thing:

Does anybody have the high capacity battery that doesn’t fit onto the camera and uses a cable to hook up to it. How is that working out. Is it possible to cut and splice so it will? and do have to get a charger separately?

So many questions!

Thanks to anybody taking time with me on this.

[Josh Bradley]

Here is some video I shot with the tm700 with a little color correct in color.

color had no problems with 60p or what ever you want to call it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2-7EF3738g

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[Matt Heaven]

This thread is quite entertaining to say the least. There’s a ton of technical info that just blew my brain all over the wall behind me here.

So after reading all of this stuff…. I still don’t know which codec to transcode all my 1080p60p mts files to for use in FCP7.

I want to use 60p especially for slow motion stuff later on. I want the best image quality. I have a macbook pro i7 with 8gig of ram, so I’m hoping that my machine will be able to handle this stuff. I’m a newb to video editing and I just need to know what to transcode all my raw files to in order to get the best image quality out of the final product.

My final product goal is 2 fold. 1) to post stuff up on the inet to share with other people (i.e. youtube or vimeo). 2) to show people my final videos in high resolution on a big screen LCD style tv in 1080p. I just downloaded Toast Titanium 10 to transcode the mts files based upon several other blogs’ recommendations. I still don’t see any settings in FCP7 that would allow me to natively edit in 1080p60p. HEEEEEEEELP! If someone could walk me through what settings I need to change in FCP7 and what to transcode my files in so that it doesn’t say that frames were skipped during playback, that would be great.

Also, as a side note, I would like to get a more professional ‘film look’ type knock off. I want my stuff to look as good as possible. I know there are several ways to go about doing this. I’ve read a lot about changing to 24fps and also using color correction to get the film look. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated also.

I’m over here in Baghdad right now with the Army and I’m getting all kinds of great raw footage, but I need some help with this folks. Otherwise that’s all I’m going to have, raw footage.

Thanks for anyone’s help in advance.

[Pete Carney]

I have had a TM700 for 11 months now and can assure you that the TM700 records and stores 60 unique progressive frames per second.

The TM700 captures and compresses 60 unique progressive frames per second in standard avc/h.264, but it uses an unconvetional mpeg2 AVCHD transfer stream.

It is this combination that FCP and iMovie are incapible of deciphering. Here’s a post from apple discussions on how to rewrap from mpeg2 to mp4 transfer stream without transcoding so that iMovie and FCP can log and transfer.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=13140172
“I created an Automator workflow to make it a simple drag-and-drop process. You can get it from my MobileMe public folder (https://public.me.com/catservant) and it’s named Rewrap2M4V.app.

It requires you to get the ClipGrab application (https://clipgrab.de/download_en.html) because it uses the copy of ffmpeg embedded in ClipGrab’s application bundle (it’s the only up-to-date compiled copy I could find reasonably easily). ClipGrab must be installed in the /Applications folder in order for the workflow to work; the workflow itself can be installed anywhere.

Then, just drag and drop the .m2ts or .mts files onto Rewrap2M4V.app. The converted files will have the same name with a .m4v extension appended.”

I’m sure there are newer pieces of software that you can buy to do this, but I happned to have the link to this one.

Cheers,
Pete

[Danny Hays]

FCP will not edit the native .mts 1080 60p files. But Sony Vegas Pro 8 and up, CS5’s Premier and After Effects will and all 3 can render to 1080 60p mp4,and .WMV. The TM700 files are defently 1080 60p, reguardles of compression. There are no project or render presets for 1080 60p in any of these programs. You will need to make custom project and render settings for all 3 of them. With any of the NLEs I mentioned, I can Put an .mts file on the timeline with a custom project setting and see 60 perfect progressive frames per second.
As far as the proffesional 2K or 4K servers/editors, DVS makes several servers but they work with frame sequences containing .DPS or .TGA files, and range from 60 grand for a 2K to 125 grand for a 4K 60P server.
Danny Hays, Universal Studios FL.

[Gabriel Spaulding]

I have the same camera (HDC-TM700), same software (Toast 10 & Final Cut Studio). When you put your first clip into the Timeline and the dialog window pops up, just click “yes” to the question “set sequence settings to match clip settings?”. Then you’ll be editing at 60fps (59.94fps). This has been working for me. As far as which codec to use, I have found absolutely NO reason to use anything other than ProRes 422 for AVCHD footage. It’s just not a high enough quality to warrant using anything else.

For a “film look”, however, 60p is (perhaps) not the best idea. It looks great, but it’s way too fluid to emulate film, which is only 24fps. You could try some “film effect” filters, of course, but I think the frame rate itself will prohibit an authentic film look. I don’t recommend the “cinema mode” on the TM700, as the image quality drops significantly. Perhaps any of the other settings will work, since they’ll shoot at 30fps, which is much closer to 24fps, but they’ll be interlaced.

If you do choose to shoot 60p and still want to emulate a film look, I think the best option is to work with your camera settings. Shoot for shallow depth of field, for one. There are all kinds of sites that walk you through how to do this. The TM700 has a fair amount of control over the images shot, for a consumer camcorder. Use those settings and you’ll really be getting your money’s worth.

Good luck!

[Detlef Villerius]

excuse me if i missed something here.

I converted my HDC700 1080 50P files using Voltiac into either ProRes or H264 and imported them in Final Cut.

Dropped them on a 25 frames timeline and changed the speed to 50%
This should ceate a longer slowmotion clip, it does but:

not all frames are identical;
every other frame is the same as the one before, if this makes sense but it looks like this
112233445566….

any ideas on how to get this right anyone?

thanks in advance!

[Stacey Johnson]

Gary: You describe the Panasonic HDC-TM700 having “1080/60p” by line-doubling 1080/30p; is that the same general principle used by JVC GZ-HD6U? The HD6U has 60p footage in a format that is difficult to edit also.
Recognizing that most of us do not have 60K to drop on a true 1080p camcorder, do you see the Panasonic HDC-TM700 as worth the money, now being that it is a year old? Do you know of significant 1080p breakthroughs in the near future that would make that format more in the TM700 price range?

Thank you,

Stacey Johnson

[Gary Adcock]

[stacey johnson] “Gary: You describe the Panasonic HDC-TM700 having “1080/60p” by line-doubling 1080/30p; is that the same general principle used by JVC GZ-HD6U?”

on the video ouput- yes that is correct- note please that in this thread I was not talking about what the camera recorded- but what the ouput video signal is- they are 2 completely different things.

1080 60p as a video signal is beyond the processing power of most computers, and way beyond most playback devices- it is used when the footage intended for Slo-mo in the Pro space and not much else.
So use it when you want to slow the footage down- otherwise use the more tradional frame rates.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

https://blogs.creativecow.net/24640