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Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
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The most sensible voices I keep hearing are those who at least TRY to understand the larger realities of the re-build.
I have never said that the complainers (or the supporters!) are right or wrong. Merely that this thing is a LOT more complex than people first thought. It is NOT incremental. So those who judge it through the lens of, say, CURRENT PROJECT COMPATIBILITY are very much CORRECT to be disappointed.
The larger point, however, might be that until someone stops focusing on compatibility as the be-all and end-all of the question – and moves on to looking at what might have been gained by moving compatibility off the list – does a larger pattern become clearer?
I’m finally seeing a growing chorus of people who are diving more deeply to try to see the “what and why” of the decisions that this team of high-level professional video editing interface designers elected to do in the re-build.
If ALL that matters to you is opening up your prior projects – YES – abandon FCP-X. It does not do that. And they’ve clearly explained why it never will. So re-re-hashing that is, to me, like someone who won’t even consider if it’s a nice melody – since it’s being played on an accordian and the listerner HATES accordians.
The real juice right now in FCP evaluation is in figuring out whether or not it might do other things than opening old files in a superior way to what’s come before it – then judging how those NEW attributes might empower us to work to our advantage.
Time spent on what it’s NOT verses sussing out what it might become.
This might be the classic “glass half full or empty” debate – and everyone familiar with that hoary old idiom knows it says almost nothing about the glass OR the water level – and EVERYTHING bout the person looking at the glass.
Simple as that.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Conner
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Bill, you’re one of the loud voices. I just tried to make a sentence stringing all your caps words in the post together. You’re also telling people to obey library rules. Who are you to be telling people how to comport themselves? Why should anyone listen to you above anyone else?
That said, anytime the likes of David Lawrence or Soyka take hold of the conversation it gets an awful lot smarter. I’m still running that whole relative absolute time thing around my brain. That bloke Lawrence is wicked smart.
http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics -
…and sometimes people just want a place to go to punch a pillow. I don’t begrudge them that. Both can be done…
The irony is, some, not saying you, engage passive aggressively by trying to point out just how unconstructive that is, not exactly constructive…
In the larger context, staying quiet isn’t constructive either…so two things are at play. Venting and voicing…both are just as important, and constructive – to looking at the glass is half full and saying that glass should be full…after the glass was kicked over 😉
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[Chris Jacek] “I certainly would not want to start too many projects in a system that will never have an update, that I will never be able to open in future versions of the software.”
I thought I’ve also had…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com -
[Bill Davis] “I’m finally seeing a growing chorus of people who are diving more deeply to try to see the “what and why” of the decisions that this team of high-level professional video editing interface designers elected to do in the re-build.”
I’m all for the let’s see what this thing can do… and not to put too fine a point on things, but how can they see anything? The damn thing can’t output video to a properly calibrated HD monitor. Unless you’re in the $400 web video market, where apparently we don’t care if the color is wrong, the fields could be inverted, or the video blown out and illegal… this is a… yeah a serious problem.
I’ve gotten over the not importing old projects, though I don’t really like it. I’ve gotten over the no multicam, because they “claim” it’s coming (although with no timeframe). I’ve gotten over the interface paradigm shift, as I don’t have a problem with change. What I haven’t gotten over is this concept of “building a boat in my basement”. What’s the point, if I can’t get it out and look at it?
Personally, I think my client’s $400 web videos (or whatever price) should have proper color correction, proper exposure, and no tearing (if it has fields), but maybe I’m being unreasonable. Maybe I’m a Luddite for thinking that paying clients deserve some competence for their money. If being paid is the only definition for being “a professional”, then I guess from now on, I’ll refer to “prostitutes” as “professional women” since they meet the definition of getting paid.
Personally, I’m in the “balanced” camp. We’re at the beginning of a journey, and I get that. Lion is probably going to complicate things further, so I think 6 months is a good time frame to reevaluate things. However, this “let’s not say anything negative” crap reminds me of the “let’s check into the denial suite” approach of progressive liberals. It’s counter-productive.
How about we meet in the middle? Let’s talk about all the great potential, as well as some of the glaring omissions that Apple has made. Holding their feet to the fire is an integral part of making the app better IMO…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com -
[Mitch Ives] “The damn thing can’t output video to a properly calibrated HD monitor. “
Hi
Did you read this thread, and the link in it:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/11662
https://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/07/more-on-final-cut-pro-xs-monitoring-solution/Not a ‘solution’. but a measured assessment of the problem.
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I run a department with 20 edit suites, 3 Xsans and 4 assistants stations. Like everyone else, I’ve been eagerly awaiting the arrival of a 64 bit version of FCP. But it has to be one that fits the need of my department TODAY. With every new release of FCP in the past, we’d look at it, go ooh and ahh at the new features and then wait a few weeks before upgrading to make sure there were no serious bugs. But we always knew we could open our old projects and we knew we could rely on it for things like machine control, proper colour space with third party cards, OMF, EDL etc, etc.
So when Apple announced FCP-X and we all looked at, there was still some ooh-ing and awe-ing. But all the tools we rely on in our business were gone. Apple has essentially said goodbye to the high end pro market.
You can talk all you like about new editing paradigms and relational databases, but if I can’t get a show delivered onto HDcam tape, or share multiple projects across 20 edit suites, then I’m not even going to look at it.
I’ve never seen a new version of ANY software come out that doesn’t offer a migration path from the old software. Sure, maybe not everything translates 100% from FCP2 to FCP7, but I did open a consolidated project from FCP2 and it opened just fine in FCP7, except for a few speed change shots I had to rebuild.
That doesn’t mean I’m going to jump ship to Avid today or tomorrow. Maybe Apple will add some of what they’ve removed back into FCP-X, but I can’t wait around for ever. And the deafening silence from Apple doesn’t add to my comfort level with them.
A lot has been said about volume licensing, but in Canada, Apple never sold volume licenses to companies like ours. So we can’t add any more FCP7 systems.
We’ve set a two year deadline to move to another platform. Most likely Avid, but you never know. Two years is a long time in the computer world.
After yesterdays financial announcements, it’s become clear that iOS, iPhones and iPads are the new Apple. Mac sales were only 18% of the gross. And the release of FCP-X has announced to the world that Apple doesn’t want to be at the top of the pro-market anymore.
Cheers
John C
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the post – “it’s like going to Cleveland to get change for a dollar” summed that up perfectly…
I have to say, if you are the type that needs that type of option, would you really be the type also that would use the color grader in X?
Another feature I wanted to punch in the face after a few hours playing with it…so the question is, where else can you go from FCx?
Not even Cleveland…
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To this, I’d add that ColorSync (hardware-measured software calibration) on a standard 8-bit monitor does not offer the same accuracy that hardware calibration on a wider gamut monitor would.
I love ColorSync, and I think that color management is a long overdue and very welcome addition to FCP — but it does not completely replace the need for proper monitoring for many users.
And I haven’t even touched on monitoring interlaced footage…
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
I get a -2 down vote for saying FCP is dead when apple EOL’d it. Smells of apple shills.
I took this thread as a serious question that I might have asked under the extraordinary circumstances had they happened when I was getting started a few years ago. Where to invest our time is no joke..
Bill, Chris and others seem to me, and I’m not trying to insult anyone, to have an economic interest in pushing people into unreasonably supporting fcpx. I suspect this is how they feed their families. I don’t know.
I learned hard and I do 10 hour days in the UK broadcast industry. If you are going to have a life anything like mine, don’t invest time in fcpx. At least for a few years till it has earned your attention.
‘New paradigm’ aside, it can’t interface with any remotely professional setup, it can’t even feed a client monitor for Christ sake. Anyone defending it, IMHO, doesn’t do 10 hour days with nowhere to hide for serious people who absolutely do not know, care or tolerate an editors problem with their tools.
There have been enthusiastic defences on the cow from students, people who do web video, booth interfaces, virals and so on. For this work you have time and privacy to play and tolerate wilful idiosyncrasy and experimentation. Fine. I’m not talking about that, only to those on the cow who are following the path I followed. Others can ignore or down vote, obfuscate and belittle.
A wrong step in circumstances like this would have really hurt me back in the day ( like 5 years ago). I don’t care about the companies in question, apple, avid, adobe. I am no fanboy. But apple are out of the game. They have betrayed the technically illiterate production managers and edit producers and those girls are slow to catch on. But they will and apple will not be forgiven by those who recommended them and are now struggling to explain the situation to their bosses. Jesus, the cow can’t even figure it out.
Premiere is, rightly or wrongly, a non event for freelancers, at least in london. I haven’t even tried to use it since 4.2 ( and god was it a ball ache then). I just don’t have time. Its all avid.
Apple are out of the game unless they fix FCPX fast. And they have shown absolutely no intention to do so. Andreas has been on the money since the super meet and I was worried then too (look at the posts). Apple turned it into a domestic toy. I can almost forgive the desperate excuses and revisionism for Chris, Bill and co – even if it’s just cognitive dissonance rather that deliberate Machiavellian obfuscation – we all had a shock at our treatment. I know two post houses in soho that invested huge sums in the ‘all FCP futuristic post avid future’. And they were very, very concerned at Apples approach to pro apps for the last few years, but with sort of dissonant optimism you can find on this forum. One sold up, I’m hesitant to call the other because I like those guys and it’s a terrible thing that apple have done to them. And there’s nothing I can do or say for them.
To sum up: if your life is anything like mine – self taught broadcast editor, 10 hours a day, working for pretty much everyone at some point and only as good as his last job – fcpx is a toy for ambitious iMovie users. There is just NO QUESTION of it being used in my world, and no one living in said world can wait a couple more years to see if apple get back to being serious about pro work. We can’t. If you have a couple of years to spare like bill and Chris, or this is a hobby, or you work alone with no pressure, then ignore me.
To the young me ( and the Cow has been a LIFESAVER to me ) don’t waste your time with this toy. There’s no evidence apple will ever make good. I can’t comment on other markets but if you’re in London, get as slick as you can with media composer, period. if apple see the light and save FCP studio 3 from oblivion then things will be different.
Ok conscience clear. Over to Chris and bill.
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