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Why Apple should let HP build its workstations
Please note: I wrote this as a reply to a post below but it’s been retweeted and pointed to, so I wanted to give it its own thread.
I had to smile reading the people on the original thread below speculating about the possibility of officially licensed Mac OS on an HP Workstation.
For years, Tim Wilson and I have talked about the idea of HP providing workstations that run the Mac OS. (Not every PC manufacturer, just HP.)
Why HP?
It is why we actively focused on getting them involved at the COW. We believe that when the smoke clears, the most rabid Mac professionals on the planet — the ones running über-powerful systems that need slots, cards, etc. — will find themselves dancing with Apple and HP. Either as dual platform shops, or if it goes as we suspect, Apple will license a sole PC vendor to work with. We think that will be HP.
Over the years as Tim Wilson and I have hammered on where the growing “i-focusing” at Apple would take things, Tim said to me one day that “There is now just one true workstation left: HP’s Z series, that’s it.”
It had been years since Apple built a new one. They had killed XServe. They had swept away things like XSan, Shake, FCP, Color and other pro initiatives.
It was not hard to envision an Apple in which they would not want to lose their highest end customers, while simultaneously finding themselves becoming ever increasingly unwilling to directly supply them.
Why? For the very same reasons that had killed all the products mentioned two paragraphs back.
Even if Apple builds a new workstation, the harsh reality is that it will grow increasingly difficult for Apple to focus on a market so ancillary to what the company’s focus is.
HP’s workstation division is dedicated to serving that market around the world and does it well, always pushing the limits of where things are today.
We believe that it would be a win-win to both camps. Apple users averse to running Windows directly would stay with their OS of choice, while Apple works with a single source whose commitment to building servers is unparalleled — and whose corporate ethos of quality is akin to Apple’s own.
A bonus is that for a change, Mac users would get rid of the goofy OpenGL they’ve endured for years. The double-and-more cost of high-end video cards would end for Mac users.
When I saw my first HP Z-800 at a press event, I told their VP/GM and the VP Marketing that “it out-Macs my Mac.” It was clear that HP had looked at all the best stuff about Apple and had raised the bar when it comes to expectations in a workstation.
Unfortunately, for many users, running Windows is not something they want to do. But even the most dedicated Apple user needing real workstation power would have trouble saying no to a Z-Series HP Workstation running Mac OS.
Now if only the team in Cupertino, California would get on the phone with the people in Fort Collins, Colorado.
Apple is having to look at the proliferation of sites dedicated to the Hacintosh. So, a real joint venture looks to me to be well-timed and one that would be fortuitous to all involved.
Those are some of the thoughts that have been rolling around along with the marbles in my head.
Do with them what you will, they are just thoughts.
Best regards,
Ronald Lindeboom
CEO, Creative COW LLC
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
A 2011 FOLIO: 40 honoree as one of the 40 most influential publishers in America
https://www.creativecow.netCreativity is a process wherein the student and the teacher are located in the same individual.
“Incompetence has never prevented me from plunging in with enthusiasm.” – Woody Allen
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those that matter, don’t mind — and those that mind, don’t matter.” – Dr. Seuss
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75 Replies
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If Adobe and AVID are quick they could just port to Linux and make OSX just for those that want to run Apple only software. I doubt it is such a big deal given OSX is a Unix variant. I would love an HP workstation with cheap grunty graphics cards, at least six slots and dual boot Linux and WIN.
I feel cheated by Apple and the expensive hardware that I bought just to run their software. I certainly won’t be doing that again in a hurry. If and when FCPX becomes useful and the standard then I will have no choice. Until then…
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HP would probably have to change its position on Thunderbolt. I don’t think Apple wants to fracture its own market (ecosystem).
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[Michael Gissing] “If Adobe and AVID are quick they could just port to Linux and make OSX just for those that want to run Apple only software.”
THIS!
Another big liability is Windows 8. Tablet OS on the desktop? Blech! Microsoft is already doing what everyone is afraid Apple may one day do. Linux is the only safe haven. I love and prefer OS X, but if I am a third party software developer like Adobe or Avid I’d be porting my flagship apps to Linux now. Autodesk already has some of its stuff on Linux, and DaVinci grew up there.
Best,
Andy -
I think it would be a great thing.
It wouldn’t be much cheaper as many people have shown in this forum many times (similarly spec’d HP Towers and MacPros don’t have a huge price differential).
But wouldn’t Apple have to open the OS to more graphics cards? OpenCL and Cuda? Potentially create and optimize new and specialized firmware? I’m asking because I don’t know, but do you think Apple would have any interest in this at all? They play their cards close to the chest, this would allow a peek at their hand.
Does this mean they’d have to support HP laptops too? Wouldn’t that go against Apples interests? And wouldn’t the people who don’t want to throw down on a Z series, but want a laptop be pissed at both HP and apple?
Maybe I’m just shell shocked after the June 21st bomb, but there’s been enough dissent, I can’t imagine trying to create more.
Not sure if Apple would ever do it, or if they are even remotely interested, but I’m sure a lot of people here would be, me being one of them.
As far as porting avid and adobe to Linux, not sure if that makes sense. If professional editors with desktops are a niche, professional editors on Linux are a microorganized version of that niche. Is it worth it for Avid or Adobe?
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Who needs Thunderbolt with 6 PCIe slots.
Thunderbolt is an “on the desk” interface, PCIe is an “under the desk” and “in the rack” interface.
I’d be thrilled with a Z800 running OSX sans Thunderbolt!
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[JeremyGarchow]”As far as porting avid and adobe to Linux, not sure if that makes sense. If professional editors with desktops are a niche, professional editors on Linux are a microorganized version of that niche. Is it worth it for Avid or Adobe?”
Port it and they will come. My point is that lots of pros are using a form of Linux anyway with OSX. If Apple remain fixed in their narrow hardware window, then open the game up. There is already a lot of open source software that runs under OSX so there should be little effort in porting the OSX versions to Linux.
Ron’s point is it could be good for us and Apple to open the hardware game up but my point is if Apple want to remain exclusive, an alternative to those that don’t want to play in WIN land would be a free and easy migrate.
I embraced Linux for my office machine because it acts as a gateway between the web, Mac and Win computers in the facility. I can plug almost any drive format in and there is a ton of great freeware to do all sorts of AV tasks. The latest version of Ubuntu is probably easier to install and navigate than either OSX or WIN7. Robust! Huge dev team, millions of software developers.
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[Ronald Lindeboom] “It is why we actively focused on getting them involved at the COW. We believe that when the smoke clears, the most rabid Mac professionals on the planet — the ones running über-powerful systems that need slots, cards, etc. — will find themselves dancing with Apple and HP. Either as dual platform shops, or if it goes as we suspect, Apple will license a sole PC vendor to work with. We think that will be HP.”
Maybe I’m just dense, but why would Apple bother to remain in the high-end market segment at all? What’s really in it for them?
Apple just rolled over on a vast portion of their user base at that end of spectrum, including many substantial enterprise customers. They showed they didn’t care about the top 2% on June 21st, why would they care now?
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[Ronald Lindeboom] “It had been years since Apple built a new one. They had killed XServe. They had swept away things like XSan, Shake, FCP, Color and other pro initiatives.”
It had been years since Intel updated their dual CPU Xeon line. There wasn’t anything to build a new Mac Pro around since 2010. The new E5 Xeons only came out yesterday.
Also, Xsan is not gone. It is included in every copy of Lion. For free.
[Ronald Lindeboom] “It was not hard to envision an Apple in which they would not want to lose their highest end customers, while simultaneously finding themselves becoming ever increasingly unwilling to directly supply them.
Why? For the very same reasons that had killed all the products mentioned two paragraphs back.”
If Apple kills off the Mac Pro, there will simply not be a workstation-class Mac anymore. Period. Apple will never license OS X. It doesn’t make any sense for them to license it. What’s in it for Apple? They don’t make any significant money on OS X, it is just the thing that sells Macs. Also, why would they want to help a competitor? HP is also in the consumer PC space (for now).
I love OS X. I’ll be very sad if there is no more Mac Pro. But I’ve already gone through the much worse (for me) loss of the Xserve. I had this crazy hope before it came out that Apple might allow in the EULA for Lion Server installation on non-Apple hardware, even if only as a VM. Or maybe they’d have Oracle build OS X Servers… No. And looking back, of course they wouldn’t. Because there isn’t anything in it for Apple. OS X exists to sell Macs. That’s it.
[Ronald Lindeboom] “We believe that it would be a win-win to both camps. Apple users averse to running Windows directly would stay with their OS of choice, while Apple works with a single source whose commitment to building servers is unparalleled — and whose corporate ethos of quality is akin to Apple’s own.”
It would be a huge win for HP, that’s for sure. But it wouldn’t do anything for Apple besides dilute their brand and create a massive distraction for the OS X development teams. It ain’t gonna happen.
[Ronald Lindeboom] “A bonus is that for a change, Mac users would get rid of the goofy OpenGL they’ve endured for years. The double-and-more cost of high-end video cards would end for Mac users.”
I’m not sure what you mean. OpenGL is a technology used in OS X, it isn’t hardware. The video card gap is caused by the different firmware platforms used by Apple (EFI) and the rest of the PC industry (BIOS). Intel’s Sandy Bridge controllers ship standard with EFI, so the GPU OEMs may need to start shipping cards that are EFI-aware, and thus Mac Pro friendly.
[Ronald Lindeboom] “Unfortunately, for many users, running Windows is not something they want to do. But even the most dedicated Apple user needing real workstation power would have trouble saying no to a Z-Series HP Workstation running Mac OS.”
Unfortunately, this will never happen.
[Ronald Lindeboom] “Now if only the team in Cupertino, California would get on the phone with the people in Fort Collins, Colorado.”
Ain’t. Gonna. Happen.
[Ronald Lindeboom] “Apple is having to look at the proliferation of sites dedicated to the Hacintosh. So, a real joint venture looks to me to be well-timed and one that would be fortuitous to all involved.”
Fortuitous for everyone but Apple.
There is a big shift happening in the wake of the iPad. It is the future of general purpose computing. Microsoft is betting big on tablets, so big that Windows 8 is shoehorning a touch UI onto the desktop. Everyone assumes Apple is going to abandon OS X because they make such a large percentage of their money from iOS. But Apple just doubled down on OS X with Mountain Lion, saying they would be aiming for an annual release cycle for OS X, just like the one they have been keeping with iOS.
Whether or not there is another Mac Pro coming, right now, today, Apple looks like the commercial OS vendor that will be sticking with a desktop UI for conventional PCs while Microsoft thinks it can merge it all into one thing. I’ve tried Windows 8 Consumer Preview. Metro looks like it would be a great tablet UI, but it doesn’t make sense on the desktop.
What the workstation market needs to come to grips with is that the age of hardware overlap may be ending, and soon. For a few decades now, desktop PCs have been the mass market computers and the workstations. With relatively minor differences, the tower under an accountant’s desk has been largely the same tech as the tower in an edit suite. That might not be at all the case in a few years.
Best,
Andy -
[Michael Gissing] “My point is that lots of pros are using a form of Linux anyway with OSX.”
A form of it, yes, but it’s different.
[Michael Gissing] “There is already a lot of open source software that runs under OSX so there should be little effort in porting the OSX versions to Linux.”
I think you are drastically understating the ‘effort’ part of the equation.
Apple has been tooling down their open source initiatives as pointed out by Andrew Richards when he linked to this: https://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl-purge/
Also: https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/27716
Not saying a Linux port wouldn’t be great, it might be, but it’s a really big effort and wouldn’t make a whole lot of business sense at this point for avid/adobe.
Does fairlight run on Linux? Why not?
Jeremy
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[Michael Gissing] “My point is that lots of pros are using a form of Linux anyway with OSX. If Apple remain fixed in their narrow hardware window, then open the game up. There is already a lot of open source software that runs under OSX so there should be little effort in porting the OSX versions to Linux. “
OS X and Linux have a common ancestor, but they are not the same species. Different kernels. Pardon the analogy, but it is like humans and chimpanzees. Ports of NLEs may or may not be easy, but given the uncertainty of where Microsoft is going with Windows 8 and where Apple is going with desktops, Linux is a very safe hedge for a software vendor since the things important to workstation users are the same things important to commercial Linux developers. Workstations have a lot more in common with servers than they do with consumer PCs nowadays. The PC might be dying, but the server market is growing.
Best,
Andy
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