What’s the best way to do HDV?

[Aaron Neitz]

Are you producing shows or just post-producing??? IMHO, HDV is a piece of wotheless junk in post-production 🙂 I much prefer DVPRO-HD.

[Baz Leffler]

hey Charlie…

“IMHO, HDV is a piece of wotheless junk in post-production 🙂 I much prefer DVPRO-HD.”

I am glad its just your opinion because many thousands out there are using that ‘wotheless piece of junk’ to make good money… and not just wedding-o-graphers!

I use it extensively along side HDCam and they co-exist as DVCam and Digibetacam existed in the SD world.

(ps. I assumed “wotheless” was a typo for “worthless”)

[Bob Zelin]

Mr. Bazino –
Charlie X2 is correct. HDV is a worthless piece of junk. I have many broadcast clients that attempt to use HDV because of it’s excellent picture quality, but the VTR’s manufactured for it, including the “hi end” HVRM-25U, are worthless pieces of junk, and perform very poorly in editing situations. If you don’t even use a HDV VTR, and are using your camera to input from, I dont’ know what you do for a living, but it certainly is not a hi pressure enviornment, where someone expects you to produce. Those experienced with using everything from Beta, DVCPro, pro dv like DSR-45 and DSR1800, and of course Digi Beta find HDV to be an intolarable format to work with. OLD 3/4″ VTR’s, like the Sony VO9850 and BVU800 outperformed any HDV VTR in professional edit enviornments.

I discussed this recently SEVERAL TIMES with Sony Broadcast, and they COMPLETELY AGREE WITH ME. HDV is NOT A PROFESSIONAL FORMAT, and Sony recommends to EVERY PROFESSIONAL not to use HDV, but to use the new, superior XDCam HD format. Now, it is not my place to tell any cameraman what to purchase, and I am no fool – I understand that you can get an HDV camera from $3 – $5000, where a similar XDCamHD is closer to $15,000 for a package. But the XDCamHD VTR’s have normal I/O, and normal RS422 control, with a tape transport that does not choke and abort with every cue of the VTR during a batch capture. The only reliable way to use HDV is to either transfer the tapes to another format (like HD-Cam or DVCProHD), or to hit the CAPTURE NOW button on your FCP system and get all the material on your hard drives, so you can work like a professional.

If you are truly using HD-Cam at your facility, then I KNOW that you are suffering when you attempt to use HDV. I am active on the AVID-L2 list, with many LA pro editors that only use AVID systems, and I regularly read about their suffering trying to capture into AVID systems from HDV VTR’s.

My current professional solution to use the HVRM25 is to use an AJA HD10A or HD10AVA to convert the analog HD to HD-SDI, and to use an Addenda RS-4/L to convert the LANC to RS422 communication (and set this with the Addenda software provided by Apple native to FCP). IT STILL SUCKS as far as deck control. It’s nothing like controlling a Beta VTR, or certainly a HDW-F500, or JH-3.

Sorry Bazino – you are incorrect.

Bob Zelin

[Baz Leffler]

Hey Bo –

I am truly using HD-Cam at my facility along with just about every other format available, and I KNOW I am NOT suffering when I attempt to use HDV.

I also have a HVRM-15U “hi end” deck amoungst other HDV devices and I have taken the time to work out how to use them efficiently within a Premiere Pro/Multibride Extreme configuration. Maybe it is a Mac thing with you? Maybe its an NTSC thing?… I am PC/PAL and at the risk of repeating myself, am have great success with the combo having just finished my third HDV doco mastered to HDCam. (its the up-converted digibetacam stuff that lets the final product down).

Bo said…
“I dont’ know what you do for a living, but it certainly is not a hi pressure enviornment, where someone expects you to produce.”

Now this is where I say Bo you are soooooo wrong! I produce international programs under extreeeeme pressure and have done so for over 30 years. Did you ever work in a ‘linear edit environment’ with the same pressures?… nowdays its a breeze as compared to the old ways!

AND OF COURSE SONY BROADCAST ARE GOING TO STEER YOU AWAY FROM HDV IN FAVOUR OF XDCAM!!!!

I often vent my criticism of certain software only to find others are using it fine… its good to see the same thing can happen in hardware… and be thankful there is no need for ‘capacitor rebuilds’ with Micro$oft stuff!

[Bob Zelin]

I have only one reply (after reading your profile) – we have the same hobbies.

Bob Zelin

[John Baum]

um, hello…I realize HDV has some shortcomings but I thought it would allow us to ease into our first couple of HD jobs without a serious cash outlay. Once the HD work is steady we will upgrade our Adrenalin with a DNXcel and some kinda crazy huge storage, but not quite yet.
We do mostly corporate video and we usually do have enough time to do alot of post work. Some jobs are all post.
As far as decks are concerned I didn’t really plan on getting HDV decks. I want to get some jobs under my belt first, evaluate some different formats as well as see what new stuff develops. HD still seems to be going through some growing pains to me.

[Aaron Neitz]

Ha ha, I didn’t realize it would start a mini flame war.

HDV is alright for what it is. Some cameras look better than other, and for corporate stuff it’s just fine.

I hate HDV in post for how unwiedly it is. As a format for editing I’d rather stangle myself. Have it converted to something like DVPRO-HD or even DV anamorphic for offline editing. Personally I would look into the Varicam if you can afford it.

We’re rigged for D5, HDCAM, and DVCPRO-HD here, which plays very well with all our other pro gear. Just recently I got some footage shot on Canon XL-H1 in 25F mode – which looks pretty good – but I don’t even want to start ranting about how f’ing difficult it was to get into FCP in any sort of useful editing format….

[Aaron Neitz]

Thanks for catching that typo.

[John Baum]

Thanks for the info

[Luke Maslen]

Hi,

I’m not sure which HDV camera you are considering but depending upon the model, it should have one of component HD, HD-SDI or HDMI output. We have cards that can capture from any of these outputs and allow you to capture to an uncompressed format. The imminent DeckLink 5.7 drivers for Windows will include our first release of an online JPEG codec which means you can capture to a compressed format using intra-frame compression so you don’t have to worry about dealing with the GOP issues with HDV material. I think most people have a love-hate relationship with HDV. It’s fantastic that HDV has brought down the price of HD but the HDV format is hard and slow to work with. That’s why it’s nice to be able to eliminate that issue by capturing with a DeckLink card or Multibridge via the uncompressed outputs from the HDV cameras even if you’ve already recorded to HDV tape in the camera. If you are shooting live, then it’s great to record live on to your computer using a DeckLink card or Multibridge PCIe.

If you have already captured HDV via Firewire on your PC or Mac, then you can still use a DeckLink HD series card or Multibridge PCIe to play out to a broadcast monitor. The Dell ultrasharp 24″ has both component and DVI input. So you could use the DeckLink HD Extreme to output component analog video to the monitor. Alternatively you would use a Multibridge Extreme with it’s DVI output and connect it digitally to the Dell monitor. Another option would be the DeckLink HD Extreme with a HDLink to output digitally to the Dell monitor.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design